Cook's Illustrated Almost No Knead

Hi: Wow- simply thanks. Can you give the recipe for a sour dough using this base method. Thanks

Hi Eric:

Thanks for posting these recipes and videos.

I'm making my best and most consistent bread with a slightly different method, which also uses a parchment paper sling as recommended in the CI article. You're right: there is no need to use a skillet for the paper.

I make enough dough for three loaves. The dough is kept refigerated, and baked a loaf at a time or as needed. It will keep for at least a week, and the flavour improves.

Make a poolish with 100 grams of rye flour (my preference, but any flour will do), 75 grams of water and 1/4 tsp of instant yeast. This will be ready after about four hours at room temperature, and can be refigerated until needed.

Then:

The poolish, plus

900 grams of flour: for example 600 g of white, 200 g of multigrain and 100 g of rye, or whatever you like.

675 grams of water, plus
1 TBS malt or balsamic vinegar, and
1 TBS barley malt extract (You may remember these extra ingredients from an earlier recipe I submitted.)

1 tsp of instant yeast

1 TBS of sea salt

Mix the ingredients thoroughly and vigorously; this is a lot like brief kneading. Cut off 500-550 grams of the dough, let it rise, shape it, proof it on the parchment paper, and bake it covered at 500 for 30 minutes, then uncovered at 450 for 10 minutes.

After you make three loaves, you should have about 150 grams of dough left over. This is your poolish for the next batch. It gets better and better.

Refrigerated dough can be shaped while cold, and left to rise at room temperature. It will take at least two hours, but you can leave it for six hours or maybe more.

The crust will be thin and crackling. The crumb will have large open holes (my preference).

Also, I made a delicious yeast-risen cornbread for the first time today, something like a Portuguese "broa" but (honestly) better.

For one loaf:

240 g white flour
100 g cornmeal
2 tsp vital wheat gluten
260 g water
1/2 tsp instant yeast
1 tsp salt

Mixed, left to rise at room temperature, shaped (as a boule), proofed, baked on parchment paper all as above.

Regards.

Nice looking recipe. A couple of questions.
-/ Seems like additional malt flavor could be added by using a full cup of beer (all the liquid) rather than 1/4 cup. I'll have no problem drinking the additional beer but it seems like additional flavor could be added just by using all beer and no water.
-/ I do like the suggestion about a sourdough version if you'd like to put that recipe together.
In the meantime, I'll give this recipe a try. I just started using one of my large plastic bowls as a proofing bowl and an iron Dutch oven for baking. I really like the results.

Eric, I wondered if you could do this recipe WITHOUT the beer. Maybe substitute it with water or milk. I'd like to vote for the sourdough version!! Thanks

CI “Almost No Knead” bread: I subscribed to Cooks Illustrated for years and highly recommend it. It is great to see a CI recipe converted to video for breadtopia.com. My question is whether it is possible to place pan loafs under a clôche. (I have not found a resource for La Clôche in France, so I have converted a large round terra cotta pot Fortunately, the hole in the bottom is not pierced all the way through. I have used this with great success in tandem with my pizza stone. Not having a handle makes it a bit cumbersome, but I manage.) This make-shift clôche is sufficiently large that I could place a loaf pan on a pizza stone under it, too. Would there be any advantage to using the clôche with loaf breads? I always use the pizza stone to insure a more even oven temperature. Thank you!

I am so anxious to try the almost no knead bread I just watched! Did you use hot or room temp water? I'll let you know how it turns out - Thanks

Eric's Edit: Room temperature water is fine. Good luck (but hopefully you won't need it).

Great job, Eric!

Clear, concise, helpful, useful and fun. We all owe you a debt of gratitude for your work.

Best, Bruce

Hi Malcolm:

Thank you for your most interesting post. I had not seen your previous posts.

I find your concept of using the remainder of the dough as the poolish (or "old dough") for the next batch quite ingenious…. I don't like waste!

I have a couple questions.

1. Early in your post you indicate that the dough is kept refrigerated. Am I correct in understanding that you generally refrigerate the dough immediately after thoroughly mixing it? I assume that this aging greatly enhances the dough's flavor.

2. It sounds as though one could ferment and proof and bake a loaf immediately after mixing, reserving the rest of the dough in the refrigerator. Have you ever tried this?

3. Do you ever precut the loaf portions immediately after mixing and then individually retard the portions in separate containers? Or do you generally just retard the entire dough and then cut out the portion that you want?

4. Does the dough ferment in the refrigerator over the span of the days? Or should you ferment the dough after it comes out of the refrigerator before shaping and proofing? At the end of your post you write that the refrigerated dough can be shaped while cold and left to proof. This gives me the impression that most of the fermenting (rising) actually occurs in the fridge. Or you may be meaning that you generally cut a portion of retarded dough, let the portion come to room temperature and then shape and proof. Do you understand what I am trying to picture?

5. Where do you get your barley malt extract?

Thanks for your input.

Best, Bruce

eric…what do you think about adding 1/4 cup of starter to the mix in addition to the basic recipe from cooks illustrated??

Thanks Eric!

looks great!

Best regards from Vienna!
Doris

Allen, Beth & Ronnie -

One of the first things I tried was adding 1/4 cup of sourdough starter to the recipe. I found I liked the Cook's Illustrated recipe better as is. Somebody else in here (was it you, Bruce?) did the same thing and came to the same conclusion. Of course you could try it and see what you think.

One thing I haven't done is just leave out the beer and vinegar, substitute an approximately equal amount of water and use starter in place of the yeast. It would be a very different recipe, but maybe you'd end up with some of the other desirable characteristics of this bread.

Hi Malcolm,

Thanks for the great contribution. Very interesting and helpful information.

Could you give a recipe to fill a pullman pan? Thanks!

I'm only vaguely familiar with a pullman pan. How does its dimensions differ from the oblong la cloche?

Experimentation

Dear Eric and all:

I did find sourdough plus beer and vinegar to be too much flavor for me.

But I say: EXPERIMENT!!!

Recipes are just someone's record of what they did before.

I know some of us are on significantly limited budgets. I respect that. But for most, a bag of flour is not as expensive as most other hobbies. Making a loaf at a time allows you to experiment, pushing the limits of what you know.

I've always religiously retarded my sour dough in the fridge for 24 hours and then given the dough an 18 hour fermentation at room temperature. This method makes wonderful sourdough bread, thanks to Rhine's experiment.

But yesterday I reduced the ferment to 12 hours and gave the dough a longer proof (about 2 3/4 hours) before baking.

What I discovered for my bread was that the loaf was still wonderful and much less sour. Friends who don't like sourdough would love this naturally fermented bread.

So go ahead a try sour plus beer plus vinegar, or skip the vinegar, or use potato water from boiled potatoes. Add some honey, or maple syrup, soak some seeds and add to the mix.

I took a fully fermented sour dough and cut it into 10 pieces, formed balls, let them rest for 30 minutes, stuck my thumb through each hole and expanded the hole to make 10 bagels. Let them rest for 20 minutes or so, stretched them again so the hole wouldn't completely close up, boiled them in water with a little sugar (1/4 cup of sugar for a big pot of water; you could try honey or maple syrup, much less, the same or more) then baked until brown at 400º. I boil them for about a minute a side. You could experiment with 10 seconds to 2 minutes! Best bagels I've ever made. I've tried this with the addition of baking soda to the boiling water and didn't like the effect. Some swear by the baking soda.

I say experiment. Even the failures are generally edible.

Some experiments are failures. Hot water kills yeast and sourdough culture. But you won't make that mistake again….

One time I put boiled bagels directly on parchment paper and found out that the paper became glued to the bagels. So now I rest the boiled bagels on a metal rack for a minute or two just to let them dry a bit. Dry them too much and you can't get poppy or sesame seeds to stick. You experiment and find what works for you.

I really appreciate people like Malcolm and Rhine who challenge rules that my little brain keeps thinking are unbreakable….

Best, Bruce

Dear Ruth Ann and Eric:

I am guessing that Ruth Ann means a pan with a flat cover which slides onto the base, so that you get absolutely square bread.

Whenever I have an odd shaped pan, I fill it with water, measure the amount of water and then compare it to the water volume of a pan with which I am familiar, like a 9 x 5 bread pan. I do my math so that if the pullman pan has 25% more volume than a 9 x 5 pan, I know to try to increase my dough by about 25% over high much dough I would use for the 9 x 5 pan. Then try it and decide if you should go higher or lower with your dough volume.

Hope this helps.

Best, Bruce

The other good thing about sharing ideas at a site like this is that I'll find someone who knows more than I do. Someone will tell me how to improve my bagel recipe. Or tell me how to make a no-knead sweet dough, something I haven't tried yet.

Back to the pullman pan issue. Such challenges are why I prefer to weigh my ingredients (buy a scale from Eric!). If everything is in weight measure, it is easy to add 25% to each substance in the recipe. I even find it helpful with portions. For me, a raw dough portion of between 100g and 130g makes the right sized bagel for my family. If I have 1000g gram of ripe dough, I know that I should form between eight and ten bagels.

Right now I'm making bagels from Eric's beer bread dough, to which I added a tablespoon of maple syrup, figuring that the maple syrup would help them brown up nicely in the oven and give them so more chew. They are looking good so far.

Best, Bruce

Hi Eric:

These are the answers to Bruce's questions posted above:

1 & 2. It depends on my needs and schedule. Sometimes I use enough dough for one loaf right away and refrigerate the rest; sometimes I refrigerate the whole batch. Yes, aging enhances the flavour.

3. I've never reserved individual portions, but no reason why not. I mix the dough in a five-litre plastic pail (with cover), ex Hellman's mayonnaise, and take what I need when I need it.

4. Does the dough ferment in the refrigerator over the span of the days? YES.

Or should you ferment the dough after it comes out of the refrigerator before shaping and proofing? At the end of your post you write that the refrigerated dough can be shaped while cold and left to proof. This gives me the impression that most of the fermenting (rising)
actually occurs in the fridge. SOME OF THE FERMENTING OCCURS IN THE REFRIGERATOR. Or you may be meaning that you generally cut a portion of retarded dough, let the portion come to room temperature and then shape and proof. Do you understand what I am trying to picture? YES.
ALL OF THAT HAPPENS AS THE DOUGH WARMS UP. YOU CAN SHAPE IT COLD OR WARM. THE DOUGH WILL RISE SATISFACTORILY. IT'S JUST A MATTER OF CONVENIENCE TO SHAPE IT WHILE COLD, AND LEAVE IT ON THE PARCHMENT PAPER, COVERED WITH PLASTIC WRAP, UNTIL READY TO BAKE. BY THE WAY, ERIC USES OIL SPRAY ON THE PARCHMENT PAPER; I DON'T.

5. Any health food store should have jars of barley malt extract. It's a thick, dark syrup. If you can't get it, use molasses.

Malcolm.

Barley malt extract can also be found in stores that sell beer making supplies. Which brings up the subject of using malt and specialty grains (ground fine or otherwise) in bread making. The combinations would be unlimited and, I'll bet, mostly wonderful to taste.

Malcolm:

Thanks so much for your very quick reply to my questions. I look forward to trying your method as soon as I am able. I'll probably mix a batch today and start baking on Monday or Tuesday.

What is the longest period of time that you have been able to retard the dough? Have you gone past the point of no return? If so, how many days was that for you?

Do you also make sour dough bread or do you find the method you have described a satisfactory equivalent? The constant turnover of the left over dough into a new batch is, in reality, the oldest form of sourdough culture. You just add some yeast to the final dough.

I wonder if I started a batch with 150 grams of active sourdough culture (rye flour based), could I perhaps do the whole process as sour dough? I think that is a task for another day, or year. My rule is: always start a new recipe as it is written….

Thanks also for the yeast-based corn bread. I've never seen anything at all like this. I'll need to buy some vital wheat gluten and then I'll give it a shot. I can understand the need for the gluten with the percentage of corn meal in the dough.

Thanks, too, Eric, for letting this information highway flow.

Best, Bruce

Hi, Eric:

As you know, I've also been making the beer bread for a couple weeks now.

I have been using Bragg Organic Apple Cider Vinegar in the dough with what I consider to be great success. I'm not sure if white vinegar is absolutely necessary. Perhaps others can experiment and report on their results.

I've also used flat beer with no detriment so far. I don't think the fizz in the beer is vital to the bread.

Best, Bruce

Hmmm, apple cider vinegar sounds really good. Good to know about the flat beer thing too.

Has anyone tried making this bread with a dark beer, such as Guiness Stout?

March 3rd Edit: Jessica (and her bread) rose to the challenge. See her March 3rd post with pics below.

Jessica the orignal CI article stated that they didn't like the breads made with heavy ales. They preferred the taste of lighter lagers. I have made several batches with Sam Adams lager which I like and I just started a batch with Pryamid Snow Cap, a darker winter beer. Will let you know how I like it tomorrow.

Hi: A general question : what are the possible reasons/solutions when no or little rising of dough when baking the loaf? Thanks for help Allen

Hello Barbara
It seems that you submitted a comment on the post "Cook's Illustrated Almost No Knead", but I don't find it. I quote it below:

Comment:
I am spending my weekends baking and learning. An attempt at Cajun Three Pepper bread yeilded a very wet batter. I added an extra cup of flour and am OK with the result, but need to check on the recipe's call for "uncooked polenta". My local grocery offers refrigerated tubes of polenta in their health food section. Did I use the right stuff? Would an Iowa girl just look for cornmeal?

I am a beginner at bread, but I have cooked quite a lot of polenta over the years. What you are referring to in the tube is cooked polenta. Considering that one uses about 1 part polenta meal to 5 or more parts water (by volume), it is no wonder you needed to add additional flour to your recipe. In any case, polenta is a bit like cornmeal, but is is a bit coarser. The polenta that is made in some of the mountainous regions of Switzerland (Bramata meal polenta) is quite coarse—each grain being about 2-3 millimeters thick—about like a very coarse kosher salt. It takes a good hour or more of stovetop cooking in a heavy pot and very frequent stirring with a wooden spoon. The ordinary polenta that one uses in Italy (at least in the Tuscany, where I have visited) is about half as coarse. It requires about 40 minutes of cooking time. I believe that it is this sort that is being referred to for the recipe. (It is somewhat coarser than the cornmeal that one ordinarily uses for batter-bread (quick bread) cornbread.) Like oats and rice, there is instant polenta that only requires a few minutes of cooking time. I would avoid this sort. If you use the finer cornmeal, I imagine that the texture would be somewhat heavier. Also, because a cup of the finer grind would weigh more than a cup of the coarser grind, you would need to adjust your recipe accordingly. Good Luck!

Eric,
I just came on the site to check out the new almost no knead addition.
Of all the times I have been on the site, I just noticed a typo. In the first paragraph on the home page, you use the word "pallet" and I believe you mean "palate". Sorry to be nitpicky, but you know how I am!
Grin!
Bob

This was simply dee-lissh! I even got use the coors beer that had been in my cupboard for over a year..I had bought it to kill yard snails! I used all KA all-purpose flour,raw sugar dissolved in the water and instead of placing into my covered pot…I used my big round stainless steel bowl and made for my oven stones. Slid the round loaf on with my super-peel..(so much fun to use)parchment and all…covered with my pre-heated lid and what I got was a hugh round,crispy crust,loaf. It had a wonderful light and more holes than expected texture. Really tasted great with Italian salame,lettuce,onion,black olives,mozzarella,little miracle whip and Italian dressing. Hubby and I scarfed it down. Thank you for your e-mail telling me about this tasty easy bread.

Hi Eric, I've been fooling around with some recipes given to me by bread baking friends. No more! I made a resolution to do just your No-Knead method. Made a great loaf. Happiness! Then I got your video of the Almost. I can't wait. Tomorrow. I'll report.

I can't tell you how much I enjoy your videos and my thanks to you are endless. Betty

Good catch, Bob. Misspelling fixed. Thanks.

Sylvia - that's great. I would ask you to email me a photo (if possible) to post, but I have a feeling it may be a tad late for that anyway!

You're welcome, Betty. Look forward to getting your report.

Replies to Bruce's Questions (see above)

The longest I've kept the dough is ten or eleven days refrigerated. I've never reached a point of no return.

Yes, the recycled poolish is the equivalent of a sourdough bread method. I've worked with sourdough starters, but I prefer the flavour of the poolish-based bread. Also, since the poolish is just travelling on from one batch of dough to another, it never becomes excessively sour, never spoils, and needs no maintenance.

About the yeast-risen cornbread: My wife had asked for a cornbread to go with her delicious chili. I had never seen anything quite like it, but it's really just a variation of my basic recipe, using a proportion of cornmeal instead of, say, multigrain flour. And you're right: I figured that to get a good rise it would need a shot of extra protein in the form of vital wheat gluten to compensate for the use of cornmeal. The result surpassed my expectations.

Malcolm

Okay, I have accepted your challenge and baked both types of almost no knead using Guiness Extra Stout (darker than the regular). I also added 1/2 cup of cooked wheat berries to each loaf. Both are fantastic! They are both flavorful, moist inside with plenty of holes, and the crust is chewy/crisp.

Hi Eric, Made the C.I. version yesterday and loved how much it rose. I did not have beer so I substituted lemon energy drink and today I have dough almost ready to bake that I made with tropical energy drink.I am also using Agave Nectar instead of sugar or honey. First one turned out so well that I had to make another loaf right away. Oh, and I took pics so will forward those to you if they turned out. The parchment paper made the whole process so easy. I did have trouble cutting into the dough prior to baking–don't have a razor so tried to use a knife. Also, the crust was a little darker than I like. But, hey, it's almost gone so it must be ok!! Thanks Eric!!

Malcolm, you've been a huge help.

Have you ever retarded the cornmeal bread?

Best, Bruce

Hi, Malcolm:

This Monday evening, I mixed my first batch of dough according to your February 29 post. I have not previously experienced a recipe like this one. My four-hour rye poolish barely grew but I didn't expect much with 100% rye flour.

This is clearly a 75% hydration dough, including the poolish, isn't it? I'm going to give the dough a couple days of rest in the refrigerator. I think refrigeration of a slack dough really enhances a full hydration of the flour. And hydration is really what develops gluten.

The specific hydration across the board will allow me to easily adjust the recipe to create the sized loafs that I am used to making. This is good.

About the shaping and proofing:

1. Should I try to handle the dough as little as possible? Or is good pre-shaping and shaping important? You'll probably say yes to both. Why do I ask? Hah!

2. I tend to get better bread when I don't over proof dough. How puffy should it get? Your posts make it sound as the proofing is very forgiving.

3. I assume I should bake the bread beyond 200 degrees? I usually try to approach 210 degrees with most of my artisan bread. What is your experience with this kind of bread?

Once I go through the process a couples times, I am sure that I'll stop pestering you with so many questions.

Best, Bruce

Further reply to Bruce (above)

You're not pestering me. Glad to help.

Four hours is the minimum for the rye-flour poolish. You can leave it around overnight.

You're right about 75% hydration. My basic proportions are 4:3, flour to water (ignoring yeast and salt).

1. I like an open crumb with big holes, so, yes, I handle the dough gently, and yes, good shaping is important.
That's where a parchment sling helps a lot. BTW, as with any slack dough, slashing is tricky.

2. The proofing is indeed very forgiving. Puffy is good. I've never had a problem with over-proofing.

3. I have never tested for internal temperature. After 30 minutes at 500 covered, and 10 minutes more uncovered at 450, the bread will be fine. That's my oven. Yours may produce a different result. Treat the covered baking time as invariable, and give it more or less time uncovered depending how dark and crunchy it looks and feels. if the bread seems underbaked after cooling - you know the crust will soften as the bread cools - preheat the oven to 375 and give it another 5 or 10 minutes.

Note on the yeasted cornmeal bread: Use finely-ground cornmeal in the dough, but for great flavour and a pretty loaf, sprinkle it with coarsley-ground cornmeal when shaping and proofing. For the next yeasted cornmeal bread, I'll chop up some sun-dried tomatoes (not oil-packed) and mix them into the dough.

Any questions ?

Malcolm

Hi Eric, My first loaf of A-N-K bread was a complete success. I left it for an initial 12 hours so it would fit my schedule. Its versatility is one of its greatest features. I took a picture and wanted to send it but I don't know how to get it on this comment page. I'm sure I'll soon know how! Happy baking, Betty

Hi Eric,
A great addition to Breadtopia’s recipe and video library. I’ve made six loaves so far experimenting along the way. Here are my observations and variations:
1. I found the dough too dry, upped the water slightly to 8 oz.
2. Wheat Bread – replaced honey or sugar with one tbs. of molasses.
3. Rye Bread – Use the wheat bread recipe except: Use rye flour instead of wheat, 1 tbs. of malt syrup instead of honey or sugar, 1 tbs. Fennel seeds (smashed in mortar and pestle) & 1 tbs. Caraway seeds mixed in with the dry ingredients. The dough will look uninspiring and rise even less than the wheat but will puff up nicely when baked. We keep our house 67 degrees during the day and 60 at night so I use our furnace room for fermentation and rising. The room is a large closet like space that stays about 75 degrees all the time. So, at cooler temperatures longer times may be wise.
Thanks for all that you do for us
Ed

Hello Bruce and Malcolm, and hello Eric!

I have been following your e-dialogue about retarding, and as a beginner, I am still a bit confused about the steps. At the risk of appearing as dense as some of my first loaves of bread, (though none of my breadtopia loafs have failed!), I have included three hypothetical "schedules" below to help clarify what I am trying to clarify and understand.

When you refer to forming the loaf from the cold dough, it suggests that retardation and fermentation are treated as one step (as indicated in SCHEDULE A), so that you remove the dough that had slowly but thoroughly fermented during the retardation phase in the refridgerator—it doubled or more in volume while in the refridgerator. Then you proceed directly with shaping and proofing.

When I retard in the fridge, (as in SCHEDULE A), the dough does indeed rise to double, often even before the full 24 hours have passed. I treat this as the fermentation phase (retarded fermentation). I then shape the loaf (cold) and allow it to rise (proof) at room temperature before baking it. Of course, this proofing phase will take longer, because the dough needs to come to room temperature. Is this how you proceed, too?

Or do you punch down the retarded dough and continue with a room temperature fermentation phase (8-18 hours) followed by shaping and proofing phase (ca. 2 hours), (As in SCHEDULE B)?

I have also read of schedules (such as the procedure described in SCHEDULE C) in which the dough is fermented at room temperature and then shaped. The shaped loaves are then retarded overnight in the refrigerator so that the proofing phase takes place during retardation in the refrigerator ("retarded proofing"). When the loaves have risen sufficiently, they are removed from the fridge, allowed to return to room temperature (ca. 1 hour), and then they are baked.

***********************************************************************************************
SCHEDULE A.)

1) MIX THE DOUGH AND KNEAD BRIEFLY (15X) (For the CI ANK Bread).
2.) RETARD THE DOUGH 24 HOURS IN THE REFRIDGERATOR ("Retarded Fermentation")
3.) SHAPE THE LOAF
4.) PROOF THE LOAF AT ROOM TEMP FOR 2 HOURS (or perhaps longer, because it needs to return to room temperature)
5.) FLOUR, SLASH, BAKE
6.) COOL AT LEAST 2 HOURS BEFORE INDULGING

*************************************************************************
SCHEDULE B.)

1) MIX THE DOUGH AND KNEAD BRIEFLY (15X) (For the CI ANK Bread).
2.) RETARD THE DOUGH 24 HOURS IN THE REFRIDGERATOR
3.) FERMENT THE DOUGH 8-18 HOURS AT ROOM TEMPERATURE
4.) SHAPE THE LOAF
5.) PROOF THE LOAF FOR 2 HOURS
6.) FLOUR, SLASH, BAKE
7.) COOL AT LEAST 2 HOURS BEFORE INDULGING

*************************************************************************
SCHEDULE C.)

1) MIX THE DOUGH AND KNEAD BRIEFLY (15X) (For the CI ANK Bread).
2.) FERMENT THE DOUGH 8-18 HOURS AT ROOM TEMPERATURE
4.) SHAPE THE LOAF
5.) RETARD THE DOUGH 24 HOURS IN THE REFRIDGERATOR ("Retarded Proofing")(Or until risen double)
6.) ALLOW THE LOAF TO RETURN TO ROOM TEMPERATURE
7.) FLOUR, SLASH, BAKE
7.) COOL AT LEAST 2 HOURS BEFORE INDULGING

********************************************************************************************

AND YET ANOTHER QUESTION:
What do you do when dough is retarding and rises our of sync with your baking schedule? You write that you allow your dough to retard until you are ready to bake, however, if it is unadvisable to allow dough to overrise, do you simply keep knocking it down until you are ready to procede with the proofing stage?

Thanks for you help and this extraordinary site! Gotta run off to my French class! Greetings from the Provence, blue skies and into the 3rd day of 130 km Mistral (North Wind)!

By the way, yesterday we enjoyed my first loaf of CI ANK Bread made with Leffe Cloister Beer (Belgian) and Japanese Rice Vinegar. I used bread flour and whole wheat, and It turned out light, chewy, crusty, and delicious. It boasted very big holes (the dough was quite soft, so it spread a bit more than it sprung, but the crumb was perfect!). I plan to try a loaf using apple vinegar and hard, dry cider from Normandy. (It has the same alcohol content as beer).

Greetings, Karil

Hey Eric… thank you so much for sharing the almost no-knead bread recipe and videos. I've been having great success with using these methods and I absolutely love all the variations I've felt confident employing with these methods. It started simply with using different beers, which as you've all noted here impart great flavor variations, and evolved to altering quantities of beer, flours and vinegar… to even using my beloved 'New Glarus Uff-da Bock' with, so far, my favorite results. I'm baking in my outdoor wood fired oven and have found it takes roughly 45min, at 500 degrees for the breads to reach 200+ degrees. Additionally, I've been using some tin foil to cover the loaves during part of the bake to protect the crust, as the wetter dough does take a little longer to reach a bake in my oven compared to a traditional kneaded dough. I'll try to send a picture of yesterdays bake.
Thanks again, Eric and all, for your wonderful website!
-Mike
PS Looks like those new bread knives are going to be a winner.

See more of Mike's photos by clicking here.

Hi Eric, I have a question regarding the ANK and the final rise. I learned a technique for enhancing the final rise by heating water in the microwave until it boils. Then using the moist, warm environment to allow the dough to rise in. Since this recipe calls for 2 hours for the final rise, does enhancing the environment decrease the final rise time? If so, how can I judge when it's ready to bake? ALSO, thanks for the quick shipment. I received the dough hook and will gladly anticipate the arrival of the dough scraper next week sometime. Will try to download the pictures I took of my last loaf. YUM!!

Hi Mike. That sounds great. You HAVE to email me some pictures so I can post them here. Can you include a shot of your outdoor oven too?

Edit: Mike did - see just above. The word "WOW" comes immediately to mind.

Hi Lori,

I imagine a warmer environment would (or at least could) shorten the final rise time. One technique for testing readiness is depress the dough a little with a finger and if the depression comes back a little but not all the way, it's ready. You want to bake it just before it's fully risen. Easier said than done. If you bake the same loaf enough, sometimes you just get so you can tell visually when it's ready.

Just curious though why speed it up. If you're just needing to make the proofing schedule fit your schedule or something else?

Thanks Eric. Making bread requires much patience….I am still learning!! I guess that's why I try to speed it up. That and the fact that I am quickly becoming addicted to this wonderful bread. I get disappointed when I wake up in the morning and realize that I forgot to mix up a batch the night before. hehe! Is there a group for me? No Knead Breadaholics Anonymous? I'm pretty sure I would't be alone!! Thanks for making this so fun!

Hi Eric
I am really getting addicted to the NK bread.. I tell my husband, 'hurry up and finish this bread so I can make some more'. Guess I'll have to start baking bread for the neighborhood.
I also love the wetter batches as they seem to make the more moist and best crumb bread. They are very comparable to the Italian 'Vienna Breads' that I had as a child.[long time ago] They make great sandwiches

Just finished watching the ANKB videos, and once again, they were great.. I am planning on trying them out this week. One WW and one white.. I have 2 oblong oven bakers, one new and have a question.
Should I oil the pans? I've tried this once before and with a high temp, the oil turns black. It doesn't harm the pan and I just wipe away the excess. Know that you'd have a tip or two.
again, thanks for your time
jo-ann

Hi Jo-Ann. I'm glad you're having such a good time with all this. My experience with oiling the pans is that I never have and I've never had a problem with sticking. I seem to recall someone saying they did get some sticking but I think it's rare with the ceramic material and would only be a problem for a short while when you first start using them. After some use, they seem to season and "break in" in their own way.

But please let me know if you end up having a completely different experience :).

This is a question for Malcolm Kronby,:-) I have a question about the 'poolish'. I made the CI Ank bread and allowed the dough to sit out the 18 hours. I then took a portion of the dough and put it in the fridge to add to my next batch. Once I create the next batch, I'm assuming that I should take a portion of that mixed dough that includes the 'poolish' and set it aside for the next batch and so on. My question is, do I need to let the new 'poolish' sit out on the counter for any amount of time before putting it in the fridge so it can ferment more? Thanks for the help. Also, please tell me if I am doing this wrong.

Hi Eric, so nice to hear from you. I had been thinking of asking whether you had tried the ANK bread but you beat me to it. Great videos, and nice to get the variations. My latest batch used another of your ideas - I used 3oz of steel cut oats and 3oz of white whole wheat flour. Made a delicious loaf and I think it will be my regular version. I don't care for "sweet" bread so didn't add any sweetener. Thanks again, best to you and Denyce, Ann.

Hi,
I just wanted to let you know that I have just tried a wonderful, moist variation on the recipe, using 140g White breadflour, 140g wholewheat, 80g spelt flour and 50g steel cut oats ( I used the conversion 1oz = 28g for us metric people in Canada)

I have just started another with 140g each of white, spelt and graham flour. I want to try making the dough into buns - has anyone tried this and adapted cooking in the cast-iron pot successfully?

Any feedback appreciated and thanks for sharing all this great information

Malcolm is traveling out of the country but emailed this response and the one just below…

Hi Lori:

Just mix the reserved poolish into the new batch of dough, as you describe. No need to let it sit out.

You're doing it right.

Malcolm

Message for Karil Reuss:

Schedule A and B: Just as you describe the process; both will work.

Schedule C: I would not ferment the dough fully, and then
refrigerate. Stick with A or B.

If the risen dough is not in sync with my baking schedule, I just put it back in the refrigerator until I'm ready. I would not punch it down.

BTW, I suspect that your bread flour is softer - has less protein - than American, which usually has less protein than Canadian flour (I'm in Toronto). That's not bad, it's just a a fact, and may account for the spread.

Message for Bruce:

You asked how long the refrigerated dough will remain good, or what is the point of no return. II have been away for a while, and baked a loaf with dough that had been refrigerated for at lleast twelve days. The bread was deliciously complex.

Malcolm

I have seen all of this talk about a poolish, but I missed the initial recipe and technique/procedure. Could someone point me in the right direction? Thanks! I'm excited to try another bread technique. Just more fuel for the…. addiction?

Hi Karil,

I'm glad you like the dough whisk. I think for now on I will call it a magic wand.

As for why it's called a Danish dough whisk, I intend to find out. (For those who don't know, it is manufactured in Poland). I'll be seeing the owner of the company that imports them to the US this weekend at a housewares trade show in Chicago. I have actually written down your question. I've wondered myself.

Also from Malcolm…

Beth:

My recipe for a poolish is:

100 grams of flour (I like to use rye flour)
75 grams of water
1/2 tsp instant yeast

Thanks, Malcolm (and Eric). Is there a way to convert it to sourdough instead of yeast? Also wonder if there is anything I can use in place of the barley malt extract? Is it functional or for color?

Hi Beth. Here's my take on your question…

I have converted this recipe to sourdough by just adding a 1/4 cup in place of the yeast. If you do that, you might want to allow the proof to go closer to the 18 end of the range since it typically works more slowly than yeast.

The barley malt adds flavor and a boost to the yeast since it's food for the yeast too. I think someone mentioned molasses as a substitute for barley malt. But I think this is more a question for Malcolm and/or someone else.

Hi Beth:

The answer is: molasses.

Malcolm

Hi All;

I have been making the almost no-knead bread with sourdough and getting very good results. What I do different is I use the cooks-illustrated hydration and methods including the kneading. But I replace the beer and vinegar with just plain water. I end up with a very good sourdough bread with a more sandwich like crumb. My kids ask for 2 inch slices because they like the crumb so much. I have done the white and whole-wheat versions and they have worked fine for me. And it still takes very little effort.

That's excellent, Sherman. Great information. Simple and good bread, I love it. Thanks.

Hi,
Having found this site a few days ago I've become addicted. Thank you for making all this wonderfully helpful information (and videos) available! I started with the basic recipe for Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes, which baked nicely but lacked flavor. Then I moved on to the basic Almost NKB which tasted much better and looked lovely. Yesterday I tried the Whole Wheat Almost NKB, but substituted a sourdough starter for the yeast. Yummy!

The only consistent problem I've had is a bottom crust that is way too dark. I'm using a Lodge enameled cast iron dutch oven. I preheat it to just 475, reduce it to 425 when the dough goes in. I take the lid off after 30 min. and continue uncovered for another 20. I'm also using the parchment paper sling to move the dough into the dutch oven so there is parchment under the dough. The inside of the loaf is great, I check the temp. and cook to about 205. The top crust is a bit tough perhaps but otherwise all seems good. I'm a novice so don't have anything to compare to.

Can you suggest something to keep from scorching the bottom of my loaf?

Thanks so much!

Ok… I checked the setting vs the oven thermometer today. Settings of 450, 475, and 500 the therm. reads about 12 degrees higher. At lower settings of 350 and 400 the therm. reads 20 degrees hotter.
So… I guess I need to turn down my oven settings about 15-20 degrees when I'm baking. (Another argument in support of buying a new stove! hee hee hee.)

This site is the first place I've seen instructions to measure the internal temp. of my bread. Great suggestion to take the guesswork out of the equation!

So now I have another question… What is the purpose of starting the oven at such a high temp? Why not just 400 (as an example) for the full time?

Thanks for all your help!
Carolyn

>> Carolyn wrote: "The only consistent problem I've had is a bottom crust that is way too dark. I'm using a Lodge enameled cast iron dutch oven."

I haven't tried this, but maybe instead of changing oven temperature, you could put a cookie sheet or something similar on the rack underneath your dutch oven thus increasing the bottom insulation. I once made the mistake of baking a pie on a cookie sheet. Very gooey crust.

I noticed that the oven used in the videos is a gas oven. I think electric ovens have different baking characteristics, even if an oven-thermometer says the temperatures are the same, and it may be helpful to reduce the recipe temperatures by 25 degrees F.

I use a La Cloche (which I got at Williams-Sonoma for more money, darn it. "cloche" is French for "bell", BTW.) They are truly wonderful. Anyway, as I recall, the instructions (which I've lost & can't reference) said to preheat the oven to 475 degrees F., to put the un-preheated, room-temperature La Cloche with the dough in it and lid on into the oven and bake for 10-15 minutes, turn down the oven to 400 F. and bake another 15 minutes, then remove the lid and bake for another 5-10 minutes or until the crust is the right temperature.

This set of instructions has worked wonderfully well for me. I get lots of oven-spring and beautiful breads. The method is a bit safer, vis-a-vis buring yourself. However, I am going to try the video instructions just to see what will happen.

Wow, the best damn sourdough bread i have ever tasted. Whole grain recipe. Thanks, Berkley her in Utah

Are you going to put the sandwich version on Youtube?

I guess I should do that. Does the video on my site not work for you?

I had tried the New York Times recipe and ARTISAN BREAD IN 5 MINUTES A DAY, and then discovered your web site. I grew up in San Francisco, a few blocks from Boudin bakery and so I am so stoked with your recipes and videos. We have a beach house at Sea Ranch on the Mendocino Coast, so last week I brought my cast iron pot and your recipes up there. I did a lot of experimenting, and my husband loved it. Our favorite was the steel cut oat bread. Thank you for your wonderful site and terrific videos. I'm trying the Parmesan /Olive next.

Hi Rosemary,

Thanks for the nice post and compliment.

Bread baking on the Mendocino coast - what could be better? I'm hosting a small bread baking workshop this afternoon as part of an Eco Fair going on in town this weekend. I've got a loaf of Parmesan/Olive in the works (with sourdough starter originated in San Francisco). That's my attention getter, they won't stand a chance ;).

I like this version much better than the "easy bread" version on youtube. I still didn't get a great 2nd rise but I may have let the first rise go too long. Very flavorful and not crumbly at all.

I have a bakers stone that is very big, covers my whole oven rack. I am ashamed to say, I have never used it. Dumb question. Can I use the LaCloche on the bakers stone? Or is the bakers stone just to be used by itself? Also, finally got to watch a few of the videos today, they are so great, thank you so much for them. I learned a lot! sandy

Hi Sandy. Not a dumb question at all. Yes, you can. What I do is just place the dome of the cloche directly on the stone. So I don't use the cloche base in this case.

Just remember to bring the stone and cloche up to temperature together.

Hello friend Malcolm Kronby:

The press of making a living has kept me from baking much for the last two months. But I’m back to the kitchen now.

Your posts regarding the methods you follow have been an extremely helpful addition to the no-knead phenomenon.

I have stumbled across a site where a woman named Bryanna has attempted a synthesis of the NYT no-knead method and the parallel “five-minute-bread” method popularized in a recent book. She respects the Lahey/NYT no-knead and baking methods but believes that cold, slow storage greatly improves the flavor of the bread. You should see the picture of her most recent loaf at:

http://veganfeastkitchen.blogspot.com/2008/03/5-minute-no-knead-yeast-bread-and.html

I recommend that all of Eric’s faithful readers give Bryanna’s recipe a try. Or at least a half recipe.

Bryanna’s resulting method is strikingly similar to the Malcolm approach. She doesn’t use a poolish and she ferments the dough at room temperature for a couple of hours before retarding in the fridge (which to some extent mimics your poolish at room temperature). Her hydration is a little higher. Her only addition to the four basic bread ingredients is a little bit of olive oil. Other than those differences, she is a Malcolm Kronby devotee! She claims that she can keep her dough in the fridge for two weeks, baking off portions whenever she has the time, need and desire.

Bryanna only proofs her loaves for 45-60 minutes before baking them using the Jim Lahey NYT dutch-oven method. I’m not sure that she has discovered parchment paper slings yet. By the way, I think your longer proofing times makes more sense.

Great minds do think alike!

I am convinced that no-knead formulas which include extended storage in the fridge are the key to better flavor and keeping quality. You are a trail blazer. Thanks.

And, as always, thank you, Eric, for all that you do. I wouldn’t be making NKB in any style without your encouragement.

Best, Bruce

I am new to the site and just received my dough whisk that I love. I am totally enjoying the posts as well. I am going to try the CI ANK bread tomorrow. I saw a yeast cornbread mentioned but did not find a recipe. Can someone point me to where I might find it? Thanks heartly to Eric, Malcom and Bruce and all for all your information.

many blessings, carolee

Another beginners question, any reason why I can't use my large postal scale to measure out the ingredients?

carolee

Any accurate scale can be used. The advantage to a scale made for cooking (and some others) is that they can be set to zero after a bowl or container is placed on them. That way you just measure what you want in the recipe. If there is no way to set it to zero with a container on the scale just weigh the container separately and be certain to include that weight to any ingredients you are weighing.
Have fun.

Hi, I just got my scale for Mothers Day, my hubby was a sweetheart and ordered for me here at Breadtopia! Now I, too, have a question. In one of the videos I recall seeing liquid added, I can't remember how much, but let's just say 8 oz.. The scale was being used to measure this. I thought it odd at the time, because I know 1 cup is 8 LIQUID ounces. So I weighed 1 cup of water — it does NOT weigh 8 oz.

So my question is… are these recipes for Liquid ounces or ounces measured on a scale?

Thank you,Richard, for answering my question. My scale does go back to zero. I'm going to try a batch tonight. Thanks, again.
carolee

For a recipe that has "weight" specifications, the ounces specified by the recipe is by weight and would be what the scale shows. If the recipe is specifying everything by volume, 8oz would be volume. Pure water is what folks calibrated by with the 1 gm = 1 cc or 1 fluid oz of water is about 1 oz weight. When you pick another liquid it is like changing flours. They weight differently. It gets confusing when you talk about 8 oz of anything. When you hold a measuring cup in your hand you tend to think volume. When you go to a scale you tend to think weight. They aren't the same. if you end up confused, check out different recipes and you will find a definite weight vs volume comparison and be able to figure out what to apply to your own recipe.
Good luck.

I just checked my scale and water is very close to 1 oz liquid measure = 1 oz by weight. I have always used the measures as equal for water-but not for any other ingredients.

I just got a thought. Did you put the measuring cup on the scale, zero it out and THEN add the 8 oz water to weight it? 8 oz volume should be about 8 oz weight (with water) after you have gotten rid of the influence of the weight of the measuring cup

So, all of this talk (I get an email each time ) is getting me excited! I never tried the poolish, truthfully, it looked daunting. But, after reviewing Malcolm's instructions, I am ready to give it a try. I am proofing tonight and can't wait to give it a go!

Richard & Ken,
Thanks for the responses. I have now done what I should have done before asking, i.e. I looked up the actual weight of water and did the math. Although a liquid cup of water weighs a bit more than 8 oz. , it's only 8.34 oz.

MY cup of water weighed LESS than 8 oz., and yes, I did zero the scale before I added the water. So I've learned that when I use my measuring cups for either flour OR water, I may be off. All the more reason for using my new scale, huh?

Mystery solved.

I went back and read all the posts and found the Cornbread recipe, but I have ANOTHER beginners question. Does cutting marks in the top of the loaf serve a purpose other than just being pretty? Thanks, again.
carolee

Ha! Got me. It might be as simple as dictating where you want the separations in the bread to occur while baking … but in truth, I don't know. I'll defer to one of the pros. This is one of those things I've just always done.

Hello Carolee

I am not one of the pros, but as I understand it, crusty artisan breads need a vent to allow steam to escape from the more hydrated dough—especially during the oven rise and the crust formation. If a vent is not provided, the crust will tear in a random way that may not be very attractive to the loaf. Therefore, the slash is both functional as well as aesthetic. In addition, it can provide information—a kind of signature. Some bakeries also use different slash patterns to identify different kinds of loaves, just as confectioners have their various swirls to identify what you will find when you bite into a chocolate confection.

Greetings,
Karil

Couple thoughts after reading some of the recent posts in this thread:

My understanding of several recent bread books is that slashing the dough enables higher oven-spring by giving the dough more room to expand in baking. The wettest doughs (ciabatta, for instance) are not slashed, mostly I think because 1. they're so wet, they don't cooperate at all with the knife, razor-blade or lamé, and 2. they will deflate a lot.

It was a surprise to me to learn that water weighs about 8.35 ounces per 8 liquid-ounce cup. I did a little more math, and worked it out that the difference represents about 2 tsp. water per cup of water used, which translates into about a 1% difference in hydration for simple recipes (flour, water, salt, yeast). For some artisnal breads, that's a meaningful difference.

But all this only has real significance if you venture into the more 'refined' art of making certain artisnal breads. Even in those instances, getting a feel for what's right has a lot more to do with producing great bread than the accuracy of any measuring device (scale, cup, spoon, hand, egg-shell, etc.) For the most part, even artisnal bread is very forgiving, and such vagaries in measurement won't change the outcome.

Malcolm, is there any reason that the dough couldn't be frozen?

All of you doing this the sourdough way, can you think of a reason not to freeze the "loaves"?

Eating frozen loaves can be hard on the teeth? (ducking)

Richard, Don't quit your day job!

Let me re-phrase: Could I freeze the dough and then thaw and use according to directions?

Better?

Woo Hoo! My first loaf of poolish bread is in the oven, almost done. It looks beautiful! I used the parchment sling and I am so happy with the results. It kept its shape perfectly, I've always struggled with moving it from a proofing basket. It was looking a little dark, so I turned the heat down from 500 to 400 about 20 min. into it. I'll use my instant read therm. to check for done-ness.

I'd love to post pics, but I can't remember how to get them on the site. Reminders, anyone?

Hi Beth,

That's great!

I'd love to put up your pictures. You'll need to email them to me and I'll attach them to your above post. Thanks.

I'm sending them to you. I was really impressed with how forgiving this recipe is. I used sourdough and it rose WAY too much over night. I refolded it and it rose again within only a few hours. Sooooo pretty!

Excuse the delayed reply. I've been out of the country for the past three weeks.

Bruce: