Sourdough No Knead Method
The process of making a sourdough leavened no-knead loaf (at least the way I do it) is almost identical to the instant yeast variety. I just substitute 1/4 cup of sourdough starter for the 1/4 tsp. instant yeast.
Of course, working with sourdough can alter things quite a bit depending on how wet you keep your starter and how healthy it is. Some starters are very liquidy and can be poured out of their containers. I keep mine pretty thick. It has to be spooned out of the jar. I go into quite a bit of detail on how I manage my starter in the various related videos.
That said, here’s the most basic recipe that I use quite frequently.
- 1 cup (5 oz.) whole wheat flour
- 2 1/2 cups (11 oz.) white bread flour
- 1 1/2 tsp. salt
- 1 1/2 cups purified water
- 1/4 cup starter
The baking times and all that are the same as the basic no-knead method. So you can easily just watch that video but follow this recipe. I usually bake the bread at 500° for 30 minutes with the lid on and then remove the lid and continue baking for 15 more minutes at 450°.
You might have noticed that there’s a bit of difference between what I say in the video regarding recipe quantities and what’s written. The weights shown are probably more precise, but you should be fine either way as there is a fair amount of leeway in this recipe.
Generally speaking, the wetter your dough the bigger the holes will be, which many people really like. However, a drier dough will make it easier to get the bread to rise while baking, giving you greater “oven spring” and a more spherical loaf versus a pancake. With practice, you’ll get so you can come closer to predicting how your bread will turn out just based on the consistency of the dough when you’re mixing all the ingredients together. You can adjust the amount of water and flour to get the consistency that suits you best.
Many people want to know how to make their bread more sour. Breadtopia reader, Rhine Meyering, enjoys success with this by using just 1/8 cup of sourdough starter and extending the fermentation time by refrigerating the dough. Click this link to his October 7, 2007 post to read what he says. It makes a lot of sense based on my understanding of sourdough baking too.
Also, click the following link to Ariela’s post of November 25th, 2007 where she describes her success with the sourdough no knead method using spelt flour. She includes the actual recipe she uses too – very nice.
| No Knead Revisited – A Three Year Check Up
It’s been over 3 years since the original New York Times no knead bread recipe was published. That’s also about the same time Breadtopia was born. By far the most common difficulty people write or call in about is with the dough being too wet to handle at the end of the long first proofing period and also when it’s time to place the dough into a covered vessel to bake at the end of the second rise. When you run into this, there’s not a whole lot you can do about it other than attempt to follow through on the instructions and ultimately wrest the dough into your heated baker and into the oven. Your “mistake” may turn out better than you expected and if nothing else, you’ll learn from it. The next time around you can do one or a combination of a couple things differently.
The same principle holds true on the second rise. While 1-2 hours is the suggested range, I’m almost always at about 60 to 75 minutes. Another concern we hear a lot is about the dough not rising much during that second short proofing period. I don’t see mine rise much then either and it doesn’t matter so long as you see a good rise during the first several minutes that the dough is in the oven. That’s called oven spring and it’s a very good thing. By keeping your proofing periods on the shorter side, you’re more likely to get good oven spring from the still vigorous yeast or sourdough starter. Of course all of the above is assuming your yeast or sourdough starter is fresh and viable to start with. In summary, most problems can be helped or solved by stiffening the dough a little and/or shortening the rising times. If you’re new to bread baking, don’t think from reading this that it’s difficult or tricky to get great results. Most people find it a breeze and enjoy success right out of the blocks. Others may find it takes a few tries. It’s important to have fun with it and don’t worry about bombing. There’s no significant downside to bread baking but the upside can be fabulous. Enjoy! |
March 20th, 2010 update: Beadtopia reader, Beth Adams, emailed this:
I have been a follower and contributer (through the comments sections) to the site for a few years. I just tried something that I wanted to share. I added a tsp. of lavender to the regular sourdough recipe and had great results when using it for sandwiches. Hope you are able to enjoy it!
For more no-knead recipes using sourdough, check out No-Knead Recipe Variations.
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Usually it’s either too wet a dough or too long a rise (or both) that results in flat loaves. But I see you’ve already run the gamut on those variables.
Have you tried different brands of flour? More and more lately I’m hearing stories from different people that freshness and quality of flour can make a huge difference in the results. Not just in the flavor but in the rise, whole structure and all that. Being the food snob that I am, I’ve only ever used freshly milled organic flour so I have’t tested for this myself. If you haven’t done so already, buy the most expensive organic flour you can find. If you don’t have a Whole
PaycheckFoods around then maybe you can find King Arthur organic bread flour in a normal grocery store.Then continue to be careful not to make the dough too wet or proof too long.
Worth a shot maybe.
Well, I got a kitchen scale and duitifully measured the flour this time. Used the WW and Spelt recipe subbing unbleached white for the rye. Mixed as directed, put in bowl, marked bowl and put in fridge overnight.
Left out to rise until nearly double, formed loaf (if you could call it forming) left to proof. Baked in preheated oven at 500F.
It’s got nice crumb and a nice crust and it’s still a freakin’ biscotti.
I am frustrated. I prefer eating sourdough to yeasted breads but I am really tired of making flat loaves when I might as well make crackers. I’ve no idea how anyone gets oven spring, I’ve never had more than a fraction.
This is with a short proof and starter that is happy to be bubbly and frothy and seems otherwise just fine.
Made more than a dozen loaves altering proof time, fridge time, etc etc etc and not one of them looks even remotely like any of the loaves here. And this is even if I don’t even try to form the loaf.
I never have failed so miserably at any cooking project but this is it.
Bingo!
It’s amazing how the simple stuff can elude you, though. Then one day the light comes on, and all you can do is slap yourself on the forehead and say “duh.”
Every backpacker knows that water is a “pound a pint!”
So Bill, what you’re saying is “a pint’s a pound the world around,” right?
I think a lot of people know that, without necessarily realizing what it means.
As an addendum to the “bakers math” link above, this is helpful information:
Hydration levels:
Bagels: Made from a dry dough, water is anywhere from 50% to 60%
Sandwich bread: 60% to 65%
French bread (baguettes, etc): 65% to 70%
Ciabattas: 70% to 80%
Whole grain breads: Whole grains absorb a lot more water than do white flours. For whole-wheat bagels, bakers hydrate the dough at about 60%. For most other breads, they go anywhere from 70% to 85%.
Chris,
You should read this link: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/handbook/baker039s-math
Keep in mind that an ounce of water by weight equals an ounce of water by volume! Seems basic, but I’m not sure how many people realize that. Weighing is so much more accurate than eyeballing that measuring cup!
I too am in Biscotti Land, with one exception. I was really tired one night but made a loaf. I couldn’t be asked to turn on laptop to get recipe, so knowing I needed 1 lb of flour, 1/4 c. starter and 3/4 t. salt I just winged it. I’ve been playing with mixed flours and threw in, as part of the lb., a load of millet flakes with the rest plain white bread flour. I poured in a load of water without measuring and had a soggy mess. I figured that either the millet would absorb it or I would have to add a load of flour in the stretch phase (which I often forget) Next day I quickly laid it into my Pyrex Cloche lined with a cut up teflon sheet so it lined it neatly. (Actually my first major success was after using the sheet before cutting (parchment paper was baked onto biscotti loaf
) and it was very high, but had a crown like wave all around) I was in a rush, So I ended up just cooking a VERYvery soggy mess.
Appartently went was fantastic and went down brilliantly with butter and smoked salmon. So much so that I only got a sliver of crust when I got back. Since then, 2 biscottis following the recipe.
Can anyone tell me the wieght of water suggested? I’m off a try another.
I have tried a shorter proof. Guess I will try it again.
Sounds like it would be good also to invest in a scale. I have gone by feel, but maybe it’s time to try something more precise.
I like the idea of marking the bowl. Sounds like a real help.
And yes, I am using purified water.
I prefer sourdough to yeasted breads and would love to make beautiful, rather than passable loaves.
Thanks for all your input, I’ll let you know what happens.
Perhaps its in the water! I use distilled, which eliminates the possibility of chlorine (which is not yeasts friend) and makes the taste consistent, too.
Harvey, I had similar problems earlier this year. I just could not get the dough to rise on the second rise. Turned out in my case that I was waiting the whole 18 hours in the first rise and the yeast just didn’t have anything left for the second. What I started doing was to mark on the outside of the bowl with a dry erase marker where the level of the dough is, once the dough had double that line I proceeded on. This took me down to about 6 or 7 hours.
You might be having an issue with your flour weight as well. As he states in the video a cup is not a cup every time. I didn’t believe him until I did 5 cups in a row, being careful not to pack the flour into the cup and then weighing them. My weights varied by double among the 5 cups. I have since switched to weighing the ingredients (including the water) and this has made a much more consistant product.
Hope this helps
Jim
Harvey, I also get better rise with yeast than sourdough. My house is cool all year round and I found that giving it a longer first rise and a shorter proof (about an hour) works better with both yeast and sourdough, regardless of what kind of flour I am using. Although I use a scale for measuring, my ultimate decision regarding moisture is based on how the dough feels in my hand. I start off fairly dry and keep adding water, a little at a time, until all of the flour is incorporated in the dough. I end up with a slightly wet dough, but one that I can handle easily.
I am going to try an even shorter proof next time and see how it comes out.
I am measuring by the cupful so I have no idea of percent.
Sourdough. This is the sourdough thread, right? Yeast I am familiar with – goes off like clockwork. I have not found my wetter loaves to rise any less than the dryer (but still sticky, like the video) loaves.
Have not had any problem getting bubbly dough on 1/8 or 1/4 cup of starter. Starter smells and looks fine.
The only loaf I ever got a modest round shape out of was made with unbleached white and was not anywhere near sticky like in video. Dough was totally dry. No gobs on fingers. Not even close.
Cooking in DO using preheated and cold oven makes no difference.
Otherwise, I am in sourdough biscotti land.
Harvey,
Are you doing sourdough or dry yeast? Shouldn’t really matter – a quarter teaspoon of dry yeast or a quarter cup of starter should do the trick for you. As for moisture content, I have tried anywhere from 65% to 80%, and have finally settled on a 70% hydration level. Seems the wetter the better where oven spring is concerned, but I really have trouble working with a dough much wetter than 70%. If, however, I use any whole grains in the ingredients, then I’ll add a touch more water. With pure white flour, try 500g of flour and 350g of water. That gives me a dough I can still work with, good rise and great oven spring. See me photos above.
For some reason I have never had good luck with popping the dough in the fridge and then back out – although I never have tried it during warmer weather.
I have had no problem getting bubbly, poofy first proofs, and my bread comes out with a nice crumb. I just wish it would rise more. Have tried hot and cold ovens and it doesn’t seem to make a difference (at least with what I’ve got). Have tried leaving the dough for a first proof for longer and shorter times, and again, it doesn’t seem to matter. Have tried all kinds of different flour combinations. Again, no change.
I wonder if that leaves me just down to playing with the moisture content in terms of getting a better rise? Or maybe I should move to using a gram-scale for the ingredients.
I’d love to get a nice round loaf instead of something that looks like biscotti.
Sigh.
Good question, Harvey.
You definitely want to adjust for the seasonal differences. In the case you mention, you could go on to the stretch and fold after 7 hours. This (fairly warm) weekend I started a batch at 10 PM and went on to the next step at 9 the next morning.
There can be an advantage to prolonging the fermentation to enhance the flavor development. So many people will refrigerate the dough right after mixing it up then resume the room temperature proof after some number of hours. This is a great technique if you want a longer fermentation or if you simply need to manipulate the time to better suit your schedule.
Question: Do you leave the dough 18 hours regardless of how it is going?
In the winter, my dough needed at least 18 hours. Now it’s summer, and my dough has doubled in 7 hours. Should I just leave it or punch it down and proof it???
Hi Rune,
Beautiful, beautiful bread you have there.
For those who haven’t clicked the above links, I advise against it if you are hungry.
Hi Eric,
I made my first bread this week following this recipe (using the cloche and banneton ordered from this site), and the results were fantastic! It looks great and it tastes wonderful. I almost can’t believe that I am able to create a bread that rivals my favourite bakery in town.
Here are a couple of photos:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3553/3551697573_bc31585a6e_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3554/3552506666_53f1ecf0d0_b.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2471/3552506018_a8412d8f8f_b.jpg
Me and my pregnant girlfriend are extremely grateful – even though she thinks it takes a bit too long to make, I put the dough in the fridge for two days for more taste. Thanks!
Bill,
Not too shabby! In fact, down right purty! Now, fess up, who did it for you? lol.
I need to take some pictures of the rye I just took out of the oven. I got impatient and did not proof long enough nor did I score. All four loaves of the first batch blew out on the sides. The second batch proofed 45 minutes long and I scored them. They look almost purty. Big difference!
Bob
Made a no-knead recipe that I found over on the freshloaf website.
350g whole wheat
150g spelt
50g rye
375g water
1/4 c. wet (100% hydration) starter
10g salt
standard no-knead method. Cooked in my new La Cloche
The rise was much better than I expected, given the fact it has no white flour in it. Bulk ferment was 15 hours and proofed in banneton for 2.5 hours. I cook mine at 450º for 40 min., the last ten topless.
Bob, how’d you like my scoring?
[img]rye_bread.jpg[/img][img]rye_dough.jpg[/img]
Bill,
Let me offer a couple of alternatives.
1. Cut a piece of paper bigger than your loaf out of parchment paper. Put it on top of the loaf in the breadform. Put a sheet pan or cookie sheet on top of the parchment paper. Turn the breadform and sheet pan over gently. Lift off the bread form. Pick up the loaf carefully using the edges of the parchment paper. Lower it gently into the hot container. Proceed. If you want to score your loaf, do it after you invert and remove the bread form.
2. Do not pre-heat the container. Do the same steps above. Put the loaf into the container. Set the oven to your desire temperature. You will probably have to add 10 – 15 minutes (your pre-heat time) to the baking time.
2nd method – less chance of burned fingers!!!!
Bob
Ah, fun story, Bob – there’s no scoring on that loaf, which of course explains the “blowout.” I don’t mind the blowouts; in fact I kind of like them. This is classic no-knead, meaning I dump from the brotform right to the dutch oven. It’s very difficult to score it while it sits in that hot metal bowl! Should get me La Cloche next week and can’t wait. Will probably use the superpeel to get the dough from the brotform, then to the stone and use only the cover of the La Cloche.
The age of my sourdough starter isn’t the issue (I don’t think), it’s the fact that it was started with a very mild yeast – a french sourdough (Lavain) starter, which is not really meant to use as a wet starter. But it’s too expensive to use as designed – a quarter teaspoon of dry at a time, so I made a starter from it which has a wonderfully mild sourdough aroma and flavor. I love it, but it won’t lift whole wheat! Perhaps with the vital gluten you mentioned. I’ll give it a try.
How old is your starter? A good vigorous one should be able to do it. If you get desperate, get some of Eric’s. It will raise a house off the foundation!
How did you get that big blow out on your loaf? Scoring looks pretty good, so I would have thought it would have followed. perhaps the short strokes might have been a bit deeper.
Thank you, Bob. I’ll try it in my next whole-wheat bread. My starter just doesn’t quite have the oomph for any amount of wheat.
In the meantime, I couldn’t resist adding these photos of today’s entirely white flour sourdough…
[img]bread1.jpg[/img][img]bread2.jpg[/img]
Bill,
Vital wheat gluten is basically almost pure protein.
This from Bob’s Red Mill flour: Gluten, Vital Wheat is the natural protein found in wheat. It contains 75% protein. A small amount added to yeast bread recipes improves the texture and elasticity of the dough. This is often used by commercial bakeries to produce light textured breads, and can easily put the home bread baker on a par with the professionals. Vital Wheat Gluten can also be used to make a meat substitute known as seitan.
I buy my vital wheat gluten in boxes at wallyworld (assuming you are American).
I use about a tablespoon per cup of flour in a recipe. I do not normally use it in white flour loaves as my starter is strong enough to raise the bread.
But I sometimes, not always, use it in rye or whole wheat breads to get better rise.
If you google it, you will find that it is also used, but not in the powdered form, as a substitute for meats somewhat akin to soy. You can even make your own, if you want to go to that much effort.
Bob
Bob,
I’d like to know more about the vital wheat gluten and how you use it.
Bill
Wil, thanks for the info.
I throw rolled oats in once in a while and then sprinkle them on top. Gives it a bit of a crunch.
Bob
Bob,
I used steel cut because that is what the recipe called for and I was on the SouthBeach diet at the time, and the good doctor said this was the only way to go. Rolled Oats or quick oatmeal was taboo. Steel Cut oatmeal is great, just takes longer to prepare. The steel cut oats are much healthier and gives better nutrition numbers. It really gives the bread a nice crumb & excellent crust with a little bit of nutty crunchy-ness. I am not sure how the rolled oats will fare. Eric talks about the comparison on one of the video I think in his steel cut recipe.
Wil
Wil,
Do you use steel cut oats as opposed to regular rolled oats for a particular reason?
Bob
Charles,
When you said “great results”, did you mean crust and crumb or rise or flavor?
I also add some vital wheat gluten to my WW breads to get a bit more rise out of them.
Bob
Bill
Sorry about that. The term ANKB popped up on the site and I think it means “Almost” No Knead Bread. I have been using the term for the process of streching and folding the dough a number of times with periods of rest in between, maybe 3 or 4 times. It is kneading but not very much. If you look at some of the whole grain recipes you will see this done. I hope this helps.
Wil
Sorry gents, I don’t know what “ANKB” means. I assume the “NK” portion is ‘no-knead.” I weigh everything, even the water, and shoot for 70% hydration. For me that means 500g bread flour and 350g water in my no-knead recipe. Eric’s formula is much closer to 80% hydration, but for whatever reason I just can’t work with a dough that slack. I watch his videos and can’t reproduce his results. I get flat breads, al la ciabatta. Good, but not what I was looking for. Eric clearly gets it with his, but I had to go to the 70% dough.
Through this and other sites I have learned that when I use any whole wheat flour, I must increase the water content somewhat. I’m still experimenting, but for now that means replacing about 125g of my white flour with whole wheat and adding a touch more water.
Every comment here is a great help.
For what it’s worth. My first experience with whole wheat flour and sourdough ANKB, was to follow the recipe, 5 oz of wwf and 11 oz of all purpose flour. GREAT RESULTS! My second experience was to use 8 oz wwf and 8 oz apf. Not as good as number 1. My next baking will be to go back to 5 oz wwf and 11 oz apf, or might even go to 4 oz wwf and 12 oz apf. This is what is great about baking, change the recipe and see what happens. The proof is in the crumb and crust.
Thanks Bob and Bill for the information. I have in the past made some pretty good steel cut oats bread with 50% w.wheat, and equal amounts of b. flour and rye. This was done in an ANKB fashion. It tasted good and the family kept calling for it. It was usually rather flat, averaging maybe 2 to 3 inches. It had a tight but soft crumb like sandwich bread. I always used starter, powdered milk and oil in my breads. I have a cranberry/pecan going now. I want to try the NKB steel cut oat bread next. I will stick to the recipe listed here the first time around and then experiment. With the steel cut oats, it supplies much whole grain and fiber as it is.
Wil
I agree with Bob on his assessment of whole wheat. I’ve made 100% whole wheat bread and found it to be dry and flat. I presume there’s a fix for that if you’re more creative than I. Here’s an excerpt from the the Fresh Loaf site that Bob mentions above. They are talking about hydration levels of dough, which thanks to Eric I now know to be the weight of the water divided by the weight of the flour multiplied by 100. Please note the last part where it talks about whole grains:
The percentage of water varies quite a bit depending on the type of bread.
Bagels: Made from a dry dough, water is anywhere from 50% to 60%
Sandwich bread: 60% to 65%
French bread (baguettes, etc): 65% to 70%
Ciabattas: 70% to 80%
Whole grain breads: Whole grains absorb a lot more water than do white flours. For whole-wheat bagels, bakers hydrate the dough at about 60%. For most other breads, they go anywhere from 70% to 85%.
Wil Rice,
In MY experience, I find that 100 percent whole wheat does not develop enough gluten to give a light, airy bread.
Now, that said, there are a lot of accomplished bakers on http://www.thefreshloaf.com who bake a lot of whole grain breads and seem to be successful. But, from reading their input, only after a lot of soaking and folding, etc, etc. I guess I am basically lazy and want a bit more “instant” gratification.
So, therefore, I have found that by using not more than 60 percent whole wheat, I get a very satisfactory bread, in rise, crust, crumb and flavor.
If you want to try it, start at the 60 percent and gradually work your way up to a higher percentage of whole grain. After all, half the fun of bread baking is the experimenting and playing with recipes. Remember, recipes are ONLY guidelines. They give you a base from which to start.
I would say that most of the recipes I use now on a weekly basis are not the same as the ones with which I started. Some closer to the original than others, but others quite a way off.
But please bear in mind, that these are only MY opinons and others may feel differently.
Bob
Bob,
When you say you do not have much success with 100 percent whole wheat breads, what do you dislike? Is it the lack of rise or taste? Just courious because I haven’t tried it yet. I have read enough of your comments to know that if you don’t have much success, a novice like me don’t stand a chance. I will accept a little bit flat loaf if it taste great.
Wil
BJ,
Try for around 85F. I wouldn’t go much higher. If my place is chilly, I put the starter and/or dough in my oven with the light on.
I use my “white” starters for most of my breads. I do have a dedicated sour rye starter which I use for all my rye/pumpernickel type breads.
I use only about a quarter cup of starter in my “normal” breads, so the flour I use is the determining factor as to taste. I have not had much success with 100 percent whole wheat breads, so I normally use 60 percent white and 40 percent whole wheat flour. Makes a nice, light wholewheat.
Bob
What is a good proofing temperature? 75 or less? I recently took part of my whole wheat starter and converted it to a white starter. (Made the sourdough pancakes for dinner, great!) Would it really matter which starter I used to make my bread? Would there be any taste difference if i used my white starter to make a wheat or vise versa? Love the site. Made a cinnamon raisin nk, looked great and tasted even better. I actually love making bread now! Thanks.
Thanks Jeanine and Bill for the input. Great and timely info going into the summer months. That’s indeed a fantastic loaf of bread, Jeanine. Quite the rise!
I’m also thinking rye should help with the sour. If you try it next time, maybe you can check back and let us know how it turned out.
Here is a picture of the loaf I made that finally acheived some good lift. I forgot to mention that I sprinkled the top with sesame, poppy, salt , pepper, and caraway seeds and gave it a quick spritz of water before baking.
Very yummy.
Jeanine
[img]DSC02543.JPG[/img]
Hi Jeanine,
My bread baking history is a lot like yours. Tried it years ago but lost interest. Then came a bread machine and made it real easy, but I just wanted to be more creative than a machine allows. I stumbled across the no-knead method and my bread life was good again! Then I stumbled across this site, with the sourdough no-knead and I don’t see any reason to make any other kind.
I use the King Arthur lavain starter for my sourdough. It’s their french sourdough, as opposed to San Fransico, which I find a little too strong for my tastes. I purchased it in dry form, which is how they recommend using it, but instead I used it to begin a starter and it’s worked wonderfully well for me using Eric’s technique of substituting 1/4 cup of starter for 1/4 teaspoon, as most no-knead recipes call for. The flavor is just right for me, which just a touch of tang.
I have soured it up a bit by adding whole wheat flour, and I’m sure that rye would give yours an even greater kick.
Dear Eric,
I recently came across your site while researching sourdough recipes. I am new to bread baking but old to cooking gal (hubby calls this “intuitive cooking” – a handful of this, a splash of that.) I had tried breadmaking 35 years ago as a new (first time) bride and was much discouraged by the manual, labor-intensive kneading, rising, punching down, etc., etc. The results were also underappreciated so I never ventured that way again. However, with a new Kitchenaid mixer and dough hook at hand and a more appreciative audience, I tried baking bread again 7 months ago. It still did not seem worth the time and effort until I came across the No Knead method in its’ many variations. And I found you guys!!!!
Two weeks in the fridge and No Knead bread is distinctively sour tasting, so I thought, why not try the real thing???
I ordered a starter from King Arthur Bread, which arrived on a VERY warm day in the Phoenix area via the UPS van. I thought the poor thing was dead, but given sufficient time on the counter and feedings, bubbling eventually took place.
My first two loafs were tasty by I wasn’t happy with the rise.
I re-watched your videos (they are really great and very helpful) and read through a tons of the messages and came up with a plan. (I had to adjust the rising time to the hotter weather here – 12 hours for the rise and the dough was a bit more than doubled.)I used a round cake pan lined with a silicon sheet and after the 15 minute rest, let my dough finish rising in the pan. I then placed the pan onto my preheated (500 degreeF) pizza stone and covered it with the bottom half of my dutch oven (also preheated) inverted over the dough. Thirtyfive minutes later I removed the DO cover and WOW- I had rise! I left the top without slashing it and got a great split top in the shape of a “Y.” I took this as a sign from my bread the “yes, you have found the secret to great sour dough!” I let it cook another 12 minuted at 450F. Wonderful bread, great taste, nice sized holes with that shiny quality inside the holes. The crust was crunchy and not too thick. With the warmer weater here, I am sure I will need to adjust some of my techniques to the coming heat and humidity -or lack thereof. But I just wanted to thank you so much for this website.
Also, I would like to get a slightly more sour flavor. Do you think adding some rye flour to the next feeding or two might help?
Thanks, again.
Jeanine in Chandler, AZ.
P.S. I will try and add a picture later, when I can get it downloaded to my computer.
Regarding flat loaves, about the only thing I can suggest is either starting with a stiffer dough or shorten the proofing time or both.
You can also use a smaller Dutch oven (like 4 qt) or oblong la cloche or Romertopf that shores up the dough and forces an upward rise.
This is all assuming the starter is viable which can easily be tested before baking by feeding and watching for a rise in the starter jar.
I’ve been progressing through the various no-knead recipes for 6 months or so, and tried the sourdough per your original post a couple of weeks ago. I wasn’t sure of the activity of my starter, which I had never made anything but pancakes with, so I put in somewhat more than 1/4 cup (not a lot more, just a bit). The first rise wasn’t quite what it had been with the original recipe, or even the one-fourth WW flour recipe with instant yeast, but it was satisfactory. The 2-hour rise had me a bit worried re flatness. The finished loaf (done in an enameled Lodge DO) was a bit flatter than the others, but it tasted FANTASTIC.
I should note that my starter began as a levain that the local artisan baker gave me at a class, and I’ve been souring it up by feeding it with rye flour, and it is quite sour.
When I gave it to my friend the artisan baker, he said the crumb was great and the sourness was pretty high but good tasting. I loved it. Thanks for the recipe.
I just found your site while searching for a no knead sourdough. I’m going to love spending time looking through your instructional videos. But I had some problems with this recipe. I’m not new to no knead breads, but am somewhat of a novice with sourdough. I tried this method and the result was a very wet dough 18 hours later. I had to add about a quarter cup of flour just so I wouldn’t get a pancake, but then it wouldn’t rise. The only variable here is my starter, which is active and thick – like a thick pancake dough. I used a quarter cup and got some activity, nice gluten, but very little increase in bulk and, as mentioned above, quite wet. After adding flour and folding that it, the dough wont’ rise in the banetton.
I measure by weight rather than volume, so pretty sure the ingredients are correct. Next time I might just try putting a quarter teaspoon of instant yeast in the mix the night before, and perhaps 17 to 17 1/2 ounces of flour. Let me know if you have some suggestions.
Hi there!
I love your site! So I made this today and it taste great and I got a lovely crumb. However it did not rise AT ALL. It looks like focaccia bread. And the bottom crust is slightly burnt. Do you know what could be the reason for no rise? When I turned my bowl over to release the dough into the dutch oven it was still rather wet and as soon as it hit the pan it spread out like a pancake. I would love any thoughts or suggestions. Thanks!
I made a great frisbee today. My breads never rise. THis one was no exception. I tried yesterday also, and didn’t even bother baking the bread, just threw it out.
Hi Charles – No it doesn’t matter, you can use white and red wheat interchangeably. As for ratios of bf and wwf, as you go towards more whole wheat, you might need to add a bit more water to maintain the same dough consistency. I agree that a good quantity of wwf improves the flavor. As you approach 100% ww, it just gets increasingly difficult to get a decent rise out of the dough.
Hi Sallam – I love to hear from anyone who has tried proofing before refrigerating. I haven’t. 77-80 is warm enough to cause your dough to go ballistic in short order. Your starter isn’t too strong, it’s just very healthy and hearty. So you either need to bake sooner or find a cool place to lengthen the proofing time without over proofing.
What if the dough more than doubled in volume in less than 18 hours?
I’m trying to follow Rhine Meyering’s method, but in reverse (proofing first, then refrigerating, instead of refrigerating then proofing) so that I can make pizza for my kids anytime they ask for it.
I’ve used only 1/8 cup of my own-made starter, 1 1/2c water and 4c AP flour. Checking after only 12 hours, I was surprised to see it more than doubled (almost tripled). It looked liquidy with many small bubbles. Did it over proof? I had horrible flat bakes before when my dough over-proofed (I didn’t know about over-proofing at the time, and was happy to see it going up 4 times its volume!) I now know that I shouldn’t allow the dough to grow more than double.
I’ve added 1/2c of more flour, mixed and put it directly in the fridge.
Why did it rise in 12h although I’ve used only 1/8c of my starter? is it probably too strong? or was it the temperature? my kitchen is rather warm (77~80).
Should I use less starter? or proof in a colder spot? or refrigerate as soon as it doubles (even if in half the time)?
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