Comments on: Sourdough No Knead Method http://www.breadtopia.com Bread Baking Instructional Videos and Baking Supplies. Sat, 07 Nov 2009 14:06:38 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Breadtopia http://www.breadtopia.com/sourdough-no-knead-method/#comment-38819 Breadtopia Thu, 05 Nov 2009 03:47:17 +0000 http://www.breadtopia.com/sourdough-no-knead-method/#comment-38819 Hi Mona, Sorry, the "Add an Image" feature was down for a while. Your starter photo is showing now. Very nice pic! Thanks. Hi Mona,

Sorry, the “Add an Image” feature was down for a while. Your starter photo is showing now. Very nice pic! Thanks.

]]> By: Carolyn F. http://www.breadtopia.com/sourdough-no-knead-method/#comment-38799 Carolyn F. Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:31:42 +0000 http://www.breadtopia.com/sourdough-no-knead-method/#comment-38799 Hi Harry, I'm glad you mentioned the gluten issue -- I'd heard or read something similar to what you described, but hadn't put 1 + 1 together in my brain. My mother has a friend who is allergic to gluten and I'm wondering if the long ferment would make bread allowable for her. I'll have to look into it further. But... in the meantime, you might want to look at a book called Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes A Day. They employ a similar no-knead method (using yeast rather than sourdough) and leave the dough in the fridge for several days. Perhaps reading their refrigerator slow-rise ideas will give you some ideas of your own. It's just one more resource for your arsenal. And there's at least one more person on this site that uses the slow rise method. If I remember correctly they refer to it as "retarding" the rise. If you search for the word "retard" here on Breadtopia, I think you'll find quite a bit of information. Good luck, and please let us know how the gluten sensitivity issue goes. Carolyn F. Hi Harry,
I’m glad you mentioned the gluten issue — I’d heard or read something similar to what you described, but hadn’t put 1 + 1 together in my brain. My mother has a friend who is allergic to gluten and I’m wondering if the long ferment would make bread allowable for her. I’ll have to look into it further.

But… in the meantime, you might want to look at a book called Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes A Day. They employ a similar no-knead method (using yeast rather than sourdough) and leave the dough in the fridge for several days. Perhaps reading their refrigerator slow-rise ideas will give you some ideas of your own. It’s just one more resource for your arsenal.

And there’s at least one more person on this site that uses the slow rise method. If I remember correctly they refer to it as “retarding” the rise. If you search for the word “retard” here on Breadtopia, I think you’ll find quite a bit of information.

Good luck, and please let us know how the gluten sensitivity issue goes.

Carolyn F.

]]> By: mona http://www.breadtopia.com/sourdough-no-knead-method/#comment-38785 mona Tue, 03 Nov 2009 06:18:43 +0000 http://www.breadtopia.com/sourdough-no-knead-method/#comment-38785 Harry, I believe you are 100% correct that time = breakdown of whatever it is that makes wheat/bread/grains intolerable to sensitive people. There is a very sensible scientific explanation and tons of info available on that subject! I make most all of my breads. I notice a huge difference in not only flavor and texture when I use a cool, rise, but also in digestibility. I am not an expert, mind you, but an avid explorer! Here is what I would try if I could not use extra flour: (I saw someone do this) Slightly wet your surface. Wet your plastic scraper that you will use to get the dough out of the bowl. You can smoosh it down a bit and let it rest for 15 if you want. Keep using the wettish scraper to scrape it up and form. Dip your hands in water and pretend it's lotion and rub your hands. Only get just enough water to keep it from sticking. Quickly form the dough. Have a bowl a bit smaller than the pan or dutch oven you intend to use for baking, and line that smaller bowl with parchment paper. If you crumple the paper up and wet it , it more easily conforms to the bowl. Spray the paper w/cooking spray before you put the dough in. Put a larger inverted bowl on top of that one to keep the dough from drying out on the final rise. There's your final rise/ no flour/ and just lower the parchment paper with the dough in it into your preheated pan. And to answer to question about using same container for the first and second rise: If it's a bowl that's smaller than your baking vessel, by all means use the same bowl and just stick your parchment in and then the dough. You shouldn't even have to rinse it out. I always use parchment....it just makes it much easier and don't worry about burning. I don't like to risk deflating. What initiates the final? proofing is not the extra flour added. That is only to keep dough from sticking. Something happens scientifically when gas is forced out and the "beasties" get working to make more gas as long as they have fuel. I'm no scientist for sure....just an explorer!~ I have two sourdough no knead doughs in the fridge going on day 2 tomorrow. I put them in immediately after mixing yesterday... My plan is to take them out after 48 or so and leave 18Hours, then form for final rise. They are putzing along slowly for now but slowly showing life. An experiment! Will post success or failure! I did "fold" them today using the method I suggested above with the water. (I saw it on a video) It worked beautifully with no sticking...like magic! I just figured it wouldn't hurt to slap them around a little. :) Harry,
I believe you are 100% correct that time = breakdown of whatever it is that makes wheat/bread/grains intolerable to sensitive people. There is a very sensible scientific explanation and tons of info available on that subject!
I make most all of my breads. I notice a huge difference in not only flavor and texture when I use a cool, rise, but also in digestibility.
I am not an expert, mind you, but an avid explorer!
Here is what I would try if I could not use extra flour: (I saw someone do this)
Slightly wet your surface. Wet your plastic scraper that you will use to get the dough out of the bowl. You can smoosh it down a bit and let it rest for 15 if you want. Keep using the wettish scraper to scrape it up and form. Dip your hands in water and pretend it’s lotion and rub your hands. Only get just enough water to keep it from sticking. Quickly form the dough. Have a bowl a bit smaller than the pan or dutch oven you intend to use for baking, and line that smaller bowl with parchment paper. If you crumple the paper up and wet it , it more easily conforms to the bowl. Spray the paper w/cooking spray before you put the dough in. Put a larger inverted bowl on top of that one to keep the dough from drying out on the final rise. There’s your final rise/ no flour/ and just lower the parchment paper with the dough in it into your preheated pan. And to answer to question about using same container for the first and second rise: If it’s a bowl that’s smaller than your baking vessel, by all means use the same bowl and just stick your parchment in and then the dough. You shouldn’t even have to rinse it out. I always use parchment….it just makes it much easier and don’t worry about burning. I don’t like to risk deflating.
What initiates the final? proofing is not the extra flour added. That is only to keep dough from sticking. Something happens scientifically when gas is forced out and the “beasties” get working to make more gas as long as they have fuel. I’m no scientist for sure….just an explorer!~
I have two sourdough no knead doughs in the fridge going on day 2 tomorrow. I put them in immediately after mixing yesterday… My plan is to take them out after 48 or so and leave 18Hours, then form for final rise. They are putzing along slowly for now but slowly showing life. An experiment! Will post success or failure! I did “fold” them today using the method I suggested above with the water. (I saw it on a video) It worked beautifully with no sticking…like magic! I just figured it wouldn’t hurt to slap them around a little. :)

]]> By: Harry Muscle http://www.breadtopia.com/sourdough-no-knead-method/#comment-38778 Harry Muscle Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:29:48 +0000 http://www.breadtopia.com/sourdough-no-knead-method/#comment-38778 I was wondering if I could ask you a few questions about your recipe for no-knead sourdough bread. I'm sensitive to gluten, however, many years ago a friend of mine (that I've lost touch with now) used to make sourdough bread that he let "ferment" overnight before baking. I had no issues eating this bread. After further investigation it seems many persons with similar sensitivities are able to eat bread where the yeast has been allowed to digest the flour for an extended period of time. I would like to follow your recipe almost to the letter, but I would be forced to make some minor adjustments and I was wondering if you could comment on them. The main adjustment would be the fact that I can't introduce any "fresh" flour into the dough after the overnight "ferment". That means that I can't flour my hands, the cutting board, or dough when doing the folding. Neither can I flour the proofing basket. Other than making things very sticky, would this pose any problems? Or is this small amount of new flour introduced into the dough what causes the proofing (or second rise)? As a side note, a few questions from a notice bread maker. Can I use the same container for the first and second rise? Or do I need a separate proofing basket? What exactly initiates the proofing? Is it the extra flour introduced, the folding, or just general handling of the dough? Thank you so much for taking the time to read this message and help me out in any way possible. Thanks, Harry I was wondering if I could ask you a few questions about your recipe for no-knead sourdough bread. I’m sensitive to gluten, however, many years ago a friend of mine (that I’ve lost touch with now) used to make sourdough bread that he let “ferment” overnight before baking. I had no issues eating this bread. After further investigation it seems many persons with similar sensitivities are able to eat bread where the yeast has been allowed to digest the flour for an extended period of time.

I would like to follow your recipe almost to the letter, but I would be forced to make some minor adjustments and I was wondering if you could comment on them. The main adjustment would be the fact that I can’t introduce any “fresh” flour into the dough after the overnight “ferment”. That means that I can’t flour my hands, the cutting board, or dough when doing the folding. Neither can I flour the proofing basket. Other than making things very sticky, would this pose any problems? Or is this small amount of new flour introduced into the dough what causes the proofing (or second rise)?

As a side note, a few questions from a notice bread maker. Can I use the same container for the first and second rise? Or do I need a separate proofing basket? What exactly initiates the proofing? Is it the extra flour introduced, the folding, or just general handling of the dough?

Thank you so much for taking the time to read this message and help me out in any way possible.

Thanks,
Harry

]]> By: mona http://www.breadtopia.com/sourdough-no-knead-method/#comment-38772 mona Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:35:38 +0000 http://www.breadtopia.com/sourdough-no-knead-method/#comment-38772 Here is a photo of my less than 24 hour old starter...50% kefir and 50% Montana Prairie Gold, freshly ground: <img src="http://www.breadtopia.com/wp-content/uploads/image/monastarter.jpg" alt="Mona's Sourdough" hspace="5" vspace="5" width="400" height="300" /> Here is a photo of my less than 24 hour old starter…50% kefir and 50% Montana Prairie Gold, freshly ground:
Mona's Sourdough

]]> By: dick http://www.breadtopia.com/sourdough-no-knead-method/#comment-38771 dick Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:21:42 +0000 http://www.breadtopia.com/sourdough-no-knead-method/#comment-38771 Excellent results with this one. I recently bought some of the Irish Whole Wheat flour from KA to try. I used it in combo with the KA all purpose to feed my starter and also used it as the whole wheat four in this recipe. The starter was amazing in the way it worked. The bread has a fabulous taste. A real winner all the way. The texture of the bread is great; holds up well for sandwiches. Decent crust that could maybe be a little more crackly but it is pretty crackly as is. I will be making this one a lot more often. now I will have to work on getting the crust even more crackly. I do have a question though. I notice that most of the breads here need to be slashed on the top before baking but this one does not. Is there a reason for not slashing the top of this bread? Excellent results with this one. I recently bought some of the Irish Whole Wheat flour from KA to try. I used it in combo with the KA all purpose to feed my starter and also used it as the whole wheat four in this recipe. The starter was amazing in the way it worked. The bread has a fabulous taste. A real winner all the way. The texture of the bread is great; holds up well for sandwiches. Decent crust that could maybe be a little more crackly but it is pretty crackly as is. I will be making this one a lot more often. now I will have to work on getting the crust even more crackly.

I do have a question though. I notice that most of the breads here need to be slashed on the top before baking but this one does not. Is there a reason for not slashing the top of this bread?

]]> By: Wil http://www.breadtopia.com/sourdough-no-knead-method/#comment-38769 Wil Mon, 02 Nov 2009 15:29:36 +0000 http://www.breadtopia.com/sourdough-no-knead-method/#comment-38769 Hi Mona, I can 2nd your experience with kefir and starter. I have been culturing kefir from my own grains (from the Kefir lady in Ohio), after reading another post on here about it. I use it as an enhancer to my regular SD starter, adding 1/2 cup as the liquid amount called for. It has really added a noticable improvement to rise and oven spring, not to mention flavor. The milk part has added to freshness and texture. BTW, I switched from using whole milk to organic fat free, directly from a farm creamery and the grains adapted great. The kefir is thick and creamy and is so without all of the fat. I had read that the kefir fermentation process does not remove the fat content so I thought what the heck, try it with no-fat milk and it worked. I will have to try your suggestion using all kefir as the starter. Wil Hi Mona, I can 2nd your experience with kefir and starter. I have been culturing kefir from my own grains (from the Kefir lady in Ohio), after reading another post on here about it. I use it as an enhancer to my regular SD starter, adding 1/2 cup as the liquid amount called for. It has really added a noticable improvement to rise and oven spring, not to mention flavor. The milk part has added to freshness and texture. BTW, I switched from using whole milk to organic fat free, directly from a farm creamery and the grains adapted great. The kefir is thick and creamy and is so without all of the fat. I had read that the kefir fermentation process does not remove the fat content so I thought what the heck, try it with no-fat milk and it worked. I will have to try your suggestion using all kefir as the starter.

Wil

]]> By: mona http://www.breadtopia.com/sourdough-no-knead-method/#comment-38735 mona Sat, 31 Oct 2009 17:19:37 +0000 http://www.breadtopia.com/sourdough-no-knead-method/#comment-38735 Thanks Fred! I'm going to try that. I know that flax seed when soaked gets gelatinous? They do when they're whole, anyway. I have also read, especially for whole grain breads, that "chia seeds" (yes think "Chia pet") have a gelatinous characteristic that can help add a gluten like texture that is often missing in breads with a higher whole grain content, and Chia seeds have also been known to increase shelf life because they hold in moisture. I just read that the other day, so haven't tried as yet but will post here when I do. I would think that just a couple of tablespoons would do the trick. I know that they are very good for you, I use them in smoothies! Also, don't know if anyone has mentioned this in previous posts, as I haven't read through all of them,- but I make a fabulous sourdough starter out of Kefir. I used to use commercial Kefir (plain Organic) and it took about three days (in Summer) for me to get a very active batch. Now I make my own kefir using real kefir grains and raw milk. With the real kefir, I sometimes have a starter the next day after I mix it up! (50% whole wheat or rye and 50% kefir) It always amazes me! (just shows you how alive with probiotics kefir is!) I just whip up enough to use and don't bother feeding or keeping it going. If anyone tries commercial kefir make sure it is Organic and plain. I always used full fat. It may take longer than 3 days if your room is very cool. Mix 50/50 in a glass jar or bowl, cover with a layered paper towel and rubber band. It needs to breath.....and stir once a day. I keep mine in the dark and play classical music for it. :) (just kidding) I have not tried the no knead bread with this starter yet but I have been making whole grain breads (traditional method) with it and they have risen beautifully. I will soon try the no knead method with this starter and try to post a picture here. Thanks Fred! I’m going to try that. I know that flax seed when soaked gets gelatinous? They do when they’re whole, anyway. I have also read, especially for whole grain breads, that “chia seeds” (yes think “Chia pet”) have a gelatinous characteristic that can help add a gluten like texture that is often missing in breads with a higher whole grain content, and Chia seeds have also been known to increase shelf life because they hold in moisture. I just read that the other day, so haven’t tried as yet but will post here when I do. I would think that just a couple of tablespoons would do the trick. I know that they are very good for you, I use them in smoothies!
Also, don’t know if anyone has mentioned this in previous posts, as I haven’t read through all of them,- but I make a fabulous sourdough starter out of Kefir. I used to use commercial Kefir (plain Organic) and it took about three days (in Summer) for me to get a very active batch. Now I make my own kefir using real kefir grains and raw milk. With the real kefir, I sometimes have a starter the next day after I mix it up! (50% whole wheat or rye and 50% kefir) It always amazes me! (just shows you how alive with probiotics kefir is!) I just whip up enough to use and don’t bother feeding or keeping it going. If anyone tries commercial kefir make sure it is Organic and plain. I always used full fat. It may take longer than 3 days if your room is very cool. Mix 50/50 in a glass jar or bowl, cover with a layered paper towel and rubber band. It needs to breath…..and stir once a day. I keep mine in the dark and play classical music for it. :) (just kidding)
I have not tried the no knead bread with this starter yet but I have been making whole grain breads (traditional method) with it and they have risen beautifully.
I will soon try the no knead method with this starter and try to post a picture here.

]]> By: Fred http://www.breadtopia.com/sourdough-no-knead-method/#comment-38695 Fred Fri, 30 Oct 2009 00:33:41 +0000 http://www.breadtopia.com/sourdough-no-knead-method/#comment-38695 I recently spoke with a local baker who makes some wonderful breads. He told me that he puts flaxseed into some of his bread, soaking it for a few hours prior to adding it to the dough. He somehow got a shipment of cracked flaxseed and added that to the dough, after soaking it. He said the resulting oven spring was amazing. I got some flaxseed, put it in a coffee grinder for a few seconds, soaked it and added it to the dough. The resulting bread had good oven spring and THE BEST FLAVOR AND SCENT THAT I HAVE EVER HAD IN ANY BREAD! The scent was gone the next day. I will see whether it comes through when I toast it. I recently spoke with a local baker who makes some wonderful breads. He told me that he puts flaxseed into some of his bread, soaking it for a few hours prior to adding it to the dough. He somehow got a shipment of cracked flaxseed and added that to the dough, after soaking it. He said the resulting oven spring was amazing.
I got some flaxseed, put it in a coffee grinder for a few seconds, soaked it and added it to the dough. The resulting bread had good oven spring and THE BEST FLAVOR AND SCENT THAT I HAVE EVER HAD IN ANY BREAD! The scent was gone the next day. I will see whether it comes through when I toast it.

]]> By: Gordon http://www.breadtopia.com/sourdough-no-knead-method/#comment-38431 Gordon Mon, 19 Oct 2009 16:54:16 +0000 http://www.breadtopia.com/sourdough-no-knead-method/#comment-38431 Eric - thank you so much for this fantastic site. it is awesome. I am just getting into the no knead bread recipes and am in the process of ordering the necessary supplies. Until I get a proper proofing dish to use for the second rising, however, what should I use as an alternative/substitute? Thanks again for a super site. You make everything look so easy and soooo delicious! Eric – thank you so much for this fantastic site. it is awesome.

I am just getting into the no knead bread recipes and am in the process of ordering the necessary supplies. Until I get a proper proofing dish to use for the second rising, however, what should I use as an alternative/substitute?

Thanks again for a super site. You make everything look so easy and soooo delicious!

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