Sourdough Rye Bread
This is my favorite rye bread recipe of all time… so far. I could have just as easily called it Swedish Rye Bread or Aroma Therapy Bread for that matter (takes the coveted baking bread smell to another level). And if you’re not into sourdough baking, no problem, I cover the instant yeast version as well.
So much time had passed since my last video shoot I’d forgotten the challenge of keeping a video short and concise. Sorry about the way this one drones on. If you’re already a bread baker, you can probably just go off the written recipe and instructions below.
On Rye: Higher in protein, phosphorus, iron and potassium than wheat. It’s high in lysine, low in gluten and very low in Saturated Fat, Cholesterol and Sodium. It is also a good source of Zinc, Copper and Selenium, and a very good source of Dietary Fiber and Manganese.
Rye bread, including pumpernickel, is a widely eaten food in Northern and Eastern Europe. Rye is also used to make the familiar crisp bread.
Some other uses of rye include rye whiskey and use as an alternative medicine in a liquid form, known as rye extract. Often marketed as Oralmat, rye extract is a liquid obtained from rye and similar to that extracted from wheatgrass. Its benefits are said to include a strengthened immune system, increased energy levels and relief from allergies, but there is no clinical evidence for its efficacy. Rye also seems active in the prevention of prostate cancer.
Sourdough Rye Recipe:
Click here to print recipe
Ingredients:
Water: 400 grams, 1 3/4 cups
Sourdough Starter: 70 grams, 1/3 cup (omit if making the instant yeast version)
Instant Yeast: 1 tsp. (omit if making sourdough leavened version)
Rye Flour: 245 grams, 1 3/4 cups
Bread Flour: 245 grams, 1 3/4 cups
Molasses: 44 grams, 2 Tbs.
Fennel Seed: 8 grams, 1 Tbs.
Anise Seed: 2 grams, 1 tsp.
Caraway Seed: 3 grams, 1 tsp.
Salt: 12 grams, 1 3/4 tsp.
Zest of 1 Orange
For sourdough version:
In a mixing bowl, mix the starter into the water. Add the molasses, all the seeds and orange zest.
In a separate bowl, combine the flours and salt.
Gradually stir the dry ingredients into the wet using a dough whisk or spoon until the flour is well incorporated. Cover with plastic and let rest for 15 minutes. After about 15 minutes, mix again for a minute or two. Again let rest for 15 minutes and mix one more time as before. Now cover the bowl with plastic and let sit at room temperature for roughly 12-14 hours.
For instant yeast version:
The only difference is don’t use sourdough starter and instead mix the instant yeast into the dry ingredients before combining with the wet ingredients.
Note on 12-14 hour proofing period: I typically prepare everything in the evening for baking the next morning. You can also mix everything up in the morning and refrigerate until evening then remove before bed to resume the proofing at room temperature. Alternatively, if you get started with mixing everything up early enough in the morning, the bread can also be ready to bake in the evening. This is a nice option when you want fresh bread ready to eat for breakfast.
After the long 12-14 hour proof, stretch and fold the dough and shape into boule or batard (round or oblong) shape for baking. (If you didn’t follow that, I’m afraid you’re doomed to watch the video.) Cover again with plastic and let rest 15 minutes before putting in a proofing basket for the final rise. If you don’t have a proofing basket, line a bowl with a well floured kitchen towel and put the dough in there for the final rise. The final rise should last somewhere between 1 to 1 1/2 hours. Keep the dough covered with plastic to prevent it from drying out.
Preheat your oven to 475 F a half hour before baking.
Score the dough with a razor or sharp serrated knife and bake until the internal temp is about 200 F.
Let cool completely before eating.
Jan 2, 2011 addition: Check out Joe Doniach’s variation of this recipe.
July 2011 addition: Also see Heinz’s simple and fast Swiss Artisan Bread Recipe.
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Wondering if anyone has tips on freezing this and the other wonderful sourdough breads once they are baked. In recent months I have let the loaf cool completely (for several hours), cut it into 1/2 inch slices, and double ziplock bagged it for freezer storage (not a deep freezer, the one on my fridge). I like the idea of being able to grab a couple of slices for a sandwich rather than defrosting an entire loaf. But the result has always been slightly freezer burnt bread. Anyone have experience successfully freezing their loaves?
Thanks for the recipe – this is my first go and the first I’ve made from my starter. I used a baking stone. It was incredibly wet and difficult to handle so will try with more flour next time.
Loved the videos. Great website!
I have had issues punching down the dough and getting it to rise any further…I am tempted to put in the dutch oven straight after the long rise,without punching down and folding. Any advice on this matter?
Came out great!
Made this for the first time (will bake again for sure) this week. Did not use anise or orange zest, added 1 tsp dill seed. Did not use proofing basket, just formed batard on parchment and used rolled towels to hold shape. Baked it on stone, removed parchment after 10 minutes. Used the “5 minute artisan” technique with water in pan below stone.
Result: delicious, slightly aromatic, wonderful crust, crumb.
I made this rye bread with yeast twice and it did not have much of an oven rise. It came out rather flat; tasted very good. Any suggestions of why my loaves did not rise much in the oven. I baked them in a clouche.
Lou, if you ever get to the bottom of this mystery I hope to hear about it. I have been using my sourdough starter for this recipe. My first two or three loaves rose as expected. Then I had one or two that did not rise so much. On one other occasion I was in a hurry and cut the overnight rise for a spelt sourdough loaf to three or four hours. The oven rise was incredible. The loaf more than doubled in size.
Getting back to the rye bread. My solution has been to cut the long rise time down to about six hours and also to do that rise in the proofing basket, dumping straight from there to my preheated baking pan.
When following the recipe, all of the rises were as expected but after the long rise, when I moved the dough to the proofing basket I didn’t get any rise there or in the oven. I’ve tried more starter and less starter but only skipping that final handling has helped.
Bill, so you simply made the dough, let it sit the 15 mins in the mixing bowl, then transferred to the proofing basket and let it sit for 6 hours? Then into the oven? Just want to make sure I understand you correctly, as I’m having the same flat bread issue :-/
Michal,
After mixing the dough I let it rest 15 minutes, mix it again, let it rest another 15 minutes, mix it again and then put it in the proofing basket for 6 hours and then into the oven. If I’m using a metal baking tin then I line it with baking paper and use it for the proofing basket and the baking container. If the dough is very wet then proofing it in a basket, even one lined with cloth, can be a sticky mess. Good luck!
Did another try yesterday with the original recipe, reducing the first proofing step to 8 hours, and got a better, but still relatively flat loaf. Will definitely give your version a try tomorrow morning – thanks!
OH DEAR LORD! This is the first rye bread I have ever made and it has blown my mind. Great recipe! I smeared it with some homemade pear butter and I think I heard the universe crack. I was very intimidated to try to make it but I’m so glad I did. Thanks for this recipe, It’s going in my “keeper” recipe book.
Eric,
Baked my first Sourdough Rye loaf today. Sooooooooo Good! Had some friends over and they raved about it. One problem I had was that the final dough mix was so wet, I had to keep flouring it just to handle it enough to get it into the oven. I followed the ingredient’s exactly. Should I start with more flour vs. liquid, or what would you recommend?
Thanks, & BTW it was great running into you & Denise in Asheville last month.
Phil
Hi Phil,
It was great seeing you and Marilyn out there too. Birds of a feather.
The wet dough syndrome comes up a lot, and yes, just add more flour at the start to make it a bit stiffer than you think it should be. The dough tends to magically get more wet and slack during the long proofing period.
hello all
i baked this bread at leas half a dozen times now -and everyone in my family loves the taste / texture. I scale the recipe to 1.5x – this is so that i get a little larger loaf
The problem i have is the look – it gets burned on the outside (i bake mine in bread dome) @ 550F for 50 min and then 10-15 @500F – this is to get the inner temp close to 200F (i don’t take a lid off as it burns the top even more. ( if it matters i have wolf oven and i do have baking stone as well i tried baking with stone removed and it burn effect was even worse)
any ideas how i could get nice looking and tasty loaf in my situation?
thanks to all in advance
I would try reducing the baking temp by about 75-100 degrees.
It will still bake all the way through, only the outside won’t burn.
ok i finally got it down
new temp 355 for 55min, and then 10 min @ 300 with lid off and a cup of boiling water in the oven.
i now let the dough sit 36-72 hrs in the fridge to get more sour taste.
best recipe ever – everyone loves this bread.
thanks
Here’s my first loaf
Just made my first ever sourdough from these instructions. The video’s are great. The loaf turned out perfectly even though I didn’t have all of the same ingredients and equipment. I just let mine prove in a tea towel draped in the colander and baked it in a casserole dish. Thanks for teaching me!
Could you please give baking directions for baking on a stone. My loaf burned on the outside inorder to reach a 200 degree inside temp. Thank you in advance.
Hi Jeff
I do not have any baking stone or dutch oven. I bake in a teflon form on a baking metal sheet.
I have 2 problems:
1. My bread gets dark at about 30 minutes baking. But it is still very soft inside. How can I fix it? Should I reduce temperature and increase baking time?
2. I have a small whole inside my bread in the center. Not sure how to fix it.
Hi Alex,
If your bread isn’t covered then put a loose foil tent over it during the first two thirds of the baking time. This will slow down the darkening of the top and give you more time to get the center baked.
I use a metal pan and I reduce the temperature about 10 degrees Fahrenheit to avoid scorching on the bottom.
I also use a thermometer to make sure that the interior of the loaf has reached 200 F before pulling it from the oven.
Made this today/last night, sourdough version. Minus anise and fennel seeds. Baked 45 minutes in dutch oven. Came out great! Thanks for the formula.
This is a GREAT recipe! My ex- and best friend is Polish and she has traveled extensively in E Europe. She’s bread nut too, and when she visits me in the UK always brings loaves from German, French or Belgium bakeries because she hates British Chorley Wood supermarket bread (I totally understand that). I made this recipe using a good 15 year old rye starter, with quantities exactly by the list except for…
• adding a sachet of Nestles Capucino Mocca instant coffee (instant coffee and cocoa, with added sweetener).
• mixing black treacle and half golden syrup in lieu of molassses (we don’t get molasses easily in the UK), but reducing qty by half.
• The other half of sweetening was made up with Seville marmalade with fine cut peel, and omitted the orange zest (because had no oranges)
An interminable phone call from a friend made me forget the oven timing, and the boule stayed in the oven 15 minutes longer than planned. Also, it expanded so much that it stuck in my home-made cloche and needed to be prized out. It looked rather burned, tbh, and I thought it was another train smash. Still, it felt okay and had good oven spring, despite the charred appearance.
So I offered it with apologies when my ex- visited the next day. Amazingly, she reckoned it was the best rye bread she’d had for years! Moreover, she took half of the loaf back for her friends and started taking orders. I’m just hoping that I can repeat the feat!
A great recipe! Thanks.
Just made this…2 loaves…rye-spelt and rye-ww…taste is great,crumb perfect but it almost burned on the bottom and crust too thick on bottom. I likely should have put it more in the middle of the oven. My dough was so wet it could hold NO form…spread to size of pan and went up from there. There was no stretching and folding for sure. I just poured it in to the pans. I am wondering if my much more liquid starter off set the wet/dry ratio or perhaps fresh gr. flour absorbs more moisture. I used commercial milled flour.
Anyways, very pleased with the taste and texture! Thanks for the recipe and all the help on this website!
I tried the sourdough recipe for the first time. In measuring the ingredients, I used a measuring cup for my sourdough starter, then weighed it. The starter weighed in at about 35 grams. I chose to go by weight and added another 35 grams. Otherwise I followed the directions. The resulting dough was quite sticky and fairly hard to work. At the end of the 12 hour rise, it looked “softer” than the dough in the video (part 2). I shaped it into a boule. It seemed to sag a more than the video version. While the cooked bread had some depth, it did not seem to be as tall as the video version. Was this a result of “too much” starter? Or did I do the right thing by practically doubling the starter based on weight?
Oh, the bread tasted great. My 18-month old grand daughter insisted I give her part of the loaf.
Hi Jeff,
sounds like you’ve got what I wanted, a bit of tang to the bread. I’m sure that nail polish smell will vanish when you bake.
cheers
Stash
Tang? I’ll say! I’m afraid I made poison.
I have an emergency…I made a dough last night with my starter…it was a simple unbleached bread flour recipe for a no-knead bread.
It rose, but it smells like nail polish remover! What happened? Can I salvage it? Or should I dump it?
I can’t seem to nail this sourdough starter down. UGH.
Jeff, I think you have us all puzzled. You are going to have to describe step by step how you make your sourdough starter.
Yes, sourdough starter does have quite a strong smell.
:)
Did you actually bake the bread and taste it?
I believe Breadtopia does sell a sourdough starter mix and if they don’t, King Arthur flour definitely does.
It would be worth a try just to see if you get a result with a bought sourdough starter.
I just smelled my starter and even my wife agrees, it does smell a little bit like nail polish remover. But makes yummy bread. Jeff, if possible, some face to face collaboration with another baker might smooth out your process.
A friend of mine felt unsure after watching the sourdough rye videos, even though she has much more baking experience than I do. We got together one evening to make the dough, sharing a couple of glasses of wine and trading spices and kitchen gadgets, and then the next morning to bake the loaf. She’s making them on her own now with no problems.
Thank you all, here’s the status:
The dough that sat out for almost a full day rose (a little less then double) and had such a strong smell, it was as if I had unscrewed the lid on a bottle of nail poilish remover. I folded and proofed the bread anyway, let it sit an hour, and baked it in a Dutch Oven. Meanwhile, I researched the issue.
There wasn’t a whole lot of info, but it turns out ethyl acetate, not acetone, may have been what I was smelling, and may very well be a key component of the yeast process. Also reported, an underfed starter that is kept in the fridge could acquire this odor. (Mine was fed just a couple days ago).
In any case, the bread came out wonderful…a true sourdough, the best white sourdough I’ve made.
Coincidently, this all happened after deciding to have less water, and more flour in my starter based on the advice here in order to see if this helped with my starter rising.
I verified the starter in my fridge also had this odor, albeit to a lesser extent.
Turns out, ethyl acetate is used in many products and is not toxic in rats. Haha. I’m no rat.
Let me know what you know about this!
Thanks to you all.
Jeff,
glad it worked out in the end. there’s nothing so satisfying as eating that first slice of a new loaf of your very own sourdough. Gets me every time LOL.
Lovely recipe – turned out perfectly the very first time. Thanks for the precise instructions and detailed video. I’m not new to bread baking, or even to the NKM, but sourdough is new for me – my other attempts so far have been only satisfactory – this was exemplary! I didn’t have the spices or orange on hand, and I subbed in regular sugar for the molasses (went better with the meal I was serving it with), but I am excited to try for a fragant loaf was you have listed here next time.
What I’ve learned…
The recipe is great, but my personal experience has taught me to limit the water to 1 cup, and then add water to attain the consistency of that shown in the video. I found that 1 3/4 cups created too wet of a dough (based on my environment and ingredients).
Also, I’ve included pictures of my starter, and my failures, since that might be more help to people then all the successes shown here…and maybe someone can tell me what looks wrong…or have a good laugh.
Starter…
After proofing Failure #3
…Failure # 1 looked great, but because I added so much flour to stiffen it, it was hard as a rock..haha
This is the consistency of my starter…look funny?
…Attempt #4… “Proof” you can save a dough that didn’t rise after 14 hours by mixing a little water and 1/4 teaspoon of yeast. I guess my starter is “weak”…
Add a lot more flour (use AP or bread flour for now) to your starter until it’s more like wet dough than runny batter. If there’s a living culture in there, the stiffer mix will rise within several hours of it sitting out.
When starter is runny, like yours, the bubbles from fermentation will just float up through the mix. But if the mix is thick, the bubbles will be trapped and will cause the starter to rise. That rising (to hopefully about double the original amount) is your proof that your starter is viable. If your starter rises, you can reasonably expect your bread to rise also.
Breadtopia- Thank you…that actually makes sense, that the bubbles will rise in a thinner starter, and although that seems obvious now, I hadn’t thought of it that way. I’ve experimented with thicker starters and have seen it rise better, and assumed that once it was mixed with ingredients it would become thicker and rise all the same. But you’re right, this would be a good test- perhaps the final feeding, before making a bread, for example.
Failure # 2 didn’t even make it to the oven, as I lost patience…
… or you could give up
I only quit for a couple days. : )
Jeff, how about making a whole new starter? I know it would take a few days before you can try to make a loaf again but it’s worth a try. Try the pineapple juice method mentioned in Eric’s text for making sourdough. I started mine that way and it’s still going strong.
I always “feed” my starter when I take it out of the fridge and leave it for a couple of hours or so before I actually use it. Being in New England at this time of year you may have to leave it out longer depending on the temp in your house.
How did your latest attempt taste? It looked quite good.
Thanks Doris. I have a couple modifications to think about. What is it about pineapple? Is it the flavor it adds, or is there some compound in the pineapple that benefits the natural yeast? Or is it the pH?
Jeff,
this is the last paragraph of an article called The Pineapple Juice Solution, Part 1 from Debra Wink’s blog (I think)
” …..I was hoping orange juice would perform well, since it is a good source of Vitamin C and a staple in many homes. But, it turned out not to be acidic enough to meet the group’s objective, which was to use it only on the first day. However, Orange juice and apple cider do work well if they are used in place of the water for two or three days. Pat was the first to try pineapple juice, which has a lower pH than most other juices, and just happens to come in handy 6-oz cans (exactly the right measure for day one). She liked it so well that she stopped testing anything else and started recommending it to others. Almost everyone who tried it was thrilled with the results, and so pineapple juice became the solution that stuck. While the group’s mission was accomplished, the story doesn’t end here. But the rest will have to wait until next time, so please stay tuned…
References
1. Doyle, Michael P., Larry R. Beuchat, and Thomas J. Montville. 2001. Food Microbiology Fundamentals and Frontiers, 2nd ed. American Society for Microbiology Press, Washington, DC.
——————————-
This article was first published in Bread Lines, a publication of The Bread Bakers Guild of America.
Vol. 16, Issue 1, March 2008″
The whole article can be found on the website below. It deals with comparisons to using diffrent juices as starter liquids
http://www.thefreshloaf.com
I think the pineapple juice has a lower pH as well as flavour.
However, the article is quite detailed, but as an engineer I think you will find it interesting.
Wow, thanks Doris! I don’t mean to take up so much of your time.
Successful 2nd time making this bread.
My batter is sticky also, but, I was not afraid to work it a little more when I was shaping it and adding a little flour on my board and hands. Still turned out great!
Caarole, while yours was sticky, I can tell from the picture it was able to hold a shape and had good oven spring. I would love to see a picture of the dough both before and after the final proofing stages. Mine looked a bit like wet oatmeal cookie batter soup!
Hi Jeff,
Tell you what I will do, the next time I bake this Sourbough Rye, I will take pictures so you will be able to see what it looked like. So far I have been lucky, as I am not a pro at this, but I love baking. Mine looked like a sticky mess until I worked with it after the 12hrs., I wasn’t sure if it was going to hold its shape or not. I did work with the dough more with flour and was able to form it into that log look. It did well in the proofing basket and when I put it in the Romertoph I was hoping it would rise more and after 30 min. when I took the lid off I was surprised to see how good it looked.
I hope you keep trying, you will master it!
Jeff, I hope you had better luck this time with your bread. I am still a bit puzzled why you are having so much trouble with this.
What does your starter look like when you actually come to use it ?Is it very runny or does it stay on the spoon when you take it out of the jar/bowl? What kind of flour are you using? I think the rye flour is less water absorbent than the wheat and regular flour.
Do you have too much rye flour in the mix?
My dough is also quite wet but it generally seems to turn out looking like Caarole’s loaf.
Would it help if you described your bread making step by step as well as the
ingredients/amounts/consistency/conditions/equipment you are using. Maybe one of us can detect a possible solution.
As I said before, people have been baking bread for a long time and it must be possible to turn out a loaf that is acceptable to you.
Well…over 24 hours later…
after rising all day…my dough didn’t rise…my starter must not be effective, especially with this recipe.
When I got home, I added a half cup of water and 1/4 teaspoon of yeast hoping to save the dough. It rose over night and I stayed home this morning to proof the dough and bake it. I think I managed to save it!
I will sample later, but here is a picture.
looks great
:):)
seems to have risen quite nicely
Thank you Doris. I must have a weak starter? It bubbles, expands, but seems to be hit or miss depending on the recipe. Maybe it’s too cool in New England this time of year, or the wrong yeasts/bacteria have entered my starter mimicking a starter but not being optimum for breads?
I suspect more people are using active yeast here then they admit. : )
I’ve just put my 4th attempt at this recipe in the fridge for the night. I will take it out in the morning to proof, and then complete in the evening.
Since my earlier attempts were so wet and unworkable, and had so little “spine” and minimal rise, I’m experimenting with 2/3 cup of my starter and only 1 cup of water. I’m hoping the additional starter will provide more impetus for natural yeast action, and the reduction in water in a stiffer dough. Also, since there’s more starter (liquid-like) reducing the water made some sense. Already the dough seems to be responding better, although I am afraid, while being moist, it will end up too dry.
I guess I’ll find out. Wish me luck. (I thought I’d go against the grain here, no pun intended, since I’ve failed 3 times at this recipe, and make some adjustments based on the possibilities that my starter may have a different personality, and that the environment in my house may require a drier mix).
Jeff, I do not know if this will help or not, but, I made my batter in the early evening and Never put it in the Ref. at all, just covered it with plastic in the bowl and left it there over night. At 6;00am, I continued to shape it and let it rest for 15 minutes and then placed it in my proofing basket to rise for 1hr. Half hour before I preheated the oven at 475 with the Romertoff in it on lower rack.
After the 1hr. I gently placed it in the baker oven, placed the top on and baked for 30min. then the last 10 min., baked with the top of baker off. Done at 200 degrees when I tested it.
Hope this helps some.
The only time I put my dough in the Ref., is if I make it early in the morning and want to bake it the next morning. I take it out before I go to bed and let it raise covered for the 12-14 hrs.
Thank you Caarole. The thing is, I had to work today, and I thought I’d try the tip given in the recipe, which was to do as I did. I didn’t want to over-proof the dough by letting it sit out more than 12-14 hours at room temperature.
As I sit at work I am worrying I made the dough too dry and stiff and that it won’t rise. This sounds brute-force, but if I go home and find out it didn’t rise, I may add water and active yeast and try to revive it. Anyone have experience with this?
Great Recipe! I already made this bread once and baking it again tomarrow morning. My husband and I just love having this homemade Rye bread available to us all the time. We never buy store bread any longer.. Ya, gotta try it!
I just made this bread and the flavor is amazing and it looks great. I did use a rye starter that I’ve had but it is not a thick starter. The breads temp was 205 range when i pulled it. When I cut it after cooling for several hours its “sticky” not doughy, there are nice air holes and it looks like its normal but it’s sticky. Yes I baked it in a Dutch oven. Could it be my starter wasn’t correct? It’s the loaf in the front.
This is the 3rd attempt at making this recipe. The first was a brick. The 2nd I threw away before it made it to the oven, and the this time (the last time) I literally had to pour the dough onto to stone. As I look in the oven, I see what will soon be a flat piece of hard tack.
If you want a stable and delicious rye bread recipe I highly recommend this one:
http://smittenkitchen.com/blog/2010/01/new-york-deli-rye-bread/
It is probably the best rye I ever had and I made it 3 times without incident.
Please note, I say this in all candor. The problem is not with the recipe, the problem is with you. Please don’t take this as an insult,because it wasn’t meant that way.
This recipe is one of the finest sourdough rye recipes on the planet. I’ve been making bread for approximately 50 yrs now, and sourdough bread for about 20 yrs. I’ve been there, and done it all, your problems stem from your improper use of the recipe. It is obvious you aren’t following the recipe. Btw, you mention pouring the bread onto a stone; last time I checked, there was no stone mentioned in the recipe!!!!
I hope you aren’t doing something idiotic like not using the Dutch oven or Cloche. This recipe is designed to be baked in a Dutch oven/Cloche.
Follow the recipe, and you will/can have success.
Thanks Jay…I do take some insult, but that’s ok. I’ve posted before and had little advice that seemed to make sense based on what I experienced. So I appreciate any advice.
The first time I made this recipe I DID use a dutch oven, and while I had similar problems, the bread came out like a rock, and I had mentioned I thought this was because I had wet dough and tried to add flour, which obviously was the wrong move, since it did little to stiffen the dough, but sure stiffened the outcome. (This attempt rose and proofed nicely, however, but was hard and inedible).
The second attempt ened up in the garbage because I simply couldn’t handle it and thought it would fail again.
This time I followed exactly (except for the dutch oven part). As a follow-up, while there was no iver spring, it didn’t come our half bad, although very flat and moist on the inside. Everyone thought it was good.
My biggest problem is, why, even though I follow the recipe exactly 3 times now, is my dough not looking or behaving as stiffly as in the video…rather it is wet and gooey. It almost seems like it would ne better if I proofed it in a bread pan and then, so as not to over-handle it, baked it just like that.
Would a poor starter create this characteristic?
Hi Jeff……
To me, it sounds like you have not mastered the KNM, which is short for the NO KNEAD METHOD. Again, please don’t be put off by my analysis. Btw, I have a package listed on ebay which could help you immensely with your bread baking efforts, listed under Sourdough starters, it’s called “Seriously Active Sourdough Starter + 20 page Bread making course”.
So much for my plug.
Jeff, there are a number of reasons your having trouble, to eliminate them you need to go back to the basic NKM , using instant yeast, a proper Dutch oven, and simple tools necessary to achieve consistant success with the basic yeasted KNM. As I discuss, and cover in my short course, the BASIC NO KNEAD LAEHY METHOD, is a documented proven method of producing some of the most bodacious most beautiful loaves of bread on the planet. You must start at the beginning, it sounds to me like you have never mastered the basic yeasted NKM.
I would recommend you go back and do so. While I can’t take you through my 20 page course in such a small space here, I can only try to point the way out of the usual “newbie” pitfalls of the KNM. Your first NKM loaves should be made of 100% white bread flour, such as King Arthur or Hodgson Mills bread flour. Your yeast must be from a known source, preferably a new bag of instant yeast. Your Dutch oven should be of the proper size and type, if you are really interested and can part with a few bucks, get yourself a Sassafras Bread Dome. Next get yourself a Bread whisk, and use it. As far as water goes, I use only bottled spring or filtered water as the yeasties don’t like chlorinated tap water.
Jeff, to answer all of your question in this limited space is impossible. But, yes your starter can be a problem as well. I heartily recommend “newbies” start with a known quality starter, not something they made them self. But, as I’ve said earlier, I think you need to go back to the basics, which in this case means the basic yeasted NKM, using the right tools and bang out at least half a dozen Masterpieces before you jump into Sourdough. It very much sounds to me, that you’ve skipped that part of your learning experience. Only when you can do that, would I recommend switching over to Sourdough, working with Sourdough is a bit more complex.
Wishing you the best, and hoping you won’t give up.
Once again, spend $9.99 buy my starter + my 20 page course, if you are dead serious and willing to put forth a bit of effort to succeed. Do not cut corners, too many newbies keep asking me, do I really need a proper Dutch Oven, do I really need a Dough whisk, do I really need a scale?
of course the answer is no, you can probably bake bread in an old shoe, but I don’t think we are here for that.
Thanks Jay, but the No Knead Method was my first, and easiest bread. I found it simple, for both yeast and sourdough methods.
The recipe herein is not a No Knead bread, and if I have to pay for something I’m not interested.
Thank you.
People have been making bread for a looooong time and did not always have the benefit of a scale or a special whisk etc to help them along or were able to buy commercial sourdough starter. They certainly did not have Jim Lehey’s NKM or Eric’s superb video demonstrations, so I don’t think Jeff’s problem are any of those.
Maybe the problem lies with too much liquid.
How runny is your starter Jeff? I find that a very liquid starter gives me lots of problems. When I make/feed my starter I use more flour than water so that it is actually quite thick and stiff when I use it.
Do you use your starter straight from the fridge or do you take it out, feed it and leave it for 2/3 hrs until it is bubbling nicely and ready for use? I find when starter is thin the water to flour ratio in the final dough is too high and the dough can be poured into the baking container which is obviously not going to give us a nice loaf.
Maybe you could try to also slightly reduce the amount water for the dough itself and see if that gives you a better result.
I still have varying results but it’s fun trying.
I live in Florida and the weather condition are not always ideal for bread making.
So Jeff, persevere and try a few different approaches, I am
sure you will ultimately succeed.
Best of Luck.
Doris, thank you for the well thought-out advice. This is exactly the help I’m seeking. And I agree…I have read countless recipes and watched countless videos, and I think “exactness” is over-rated, and I am focusing on feel rather then measurements. I am an engineer, an I find it curious that there is so much talk of “exactness” in baking bread, but they always say “add water of flour to acheive the correct consistency”. So baking is NOT an exact science, as so many claim. I am trying to understand what I should see and feel as well as following measurements.
My starter is a batter-like consistency…thick, but creamy or even, excuse my French, almost with a consistency of snot. I keep one in the fridge that I feed weekly, and one on the counter I feed daily (every two days seems better). The house is between 61 and 68 degrees F this time of year. The starter bubbles and forms a liquid on top, but doesn’t necessarily double, although when it shows growth, I find a way to use it. It is certainly not foaming over the edges. I must add, I wanted and made my own starter…half rye, half bread flour, equal part water, feeding bread flour/water, dumping half. I am opposed to mail order because I want to use my resources.
Again Doris, I don’t know why, but, from the initial mix of the ingredients, the dough is very wet, and the mix is unlike any other recipe I’ve come across. I’ve tried reducing the water and adding a little more flour, and the best description I can give you is that the mixture seems impervious to any adjustments. Would a bad starter show this sign so early in the mixing process? Am I reading the recipe wrong??? It says 1 plus 3/4 cup of water, right???
Thank you all for your help and guidance. I want to conquer this recipe!
One final note… Might this recipe be so much like simple bread that I should be cooking it in a bread pan?
Jeff, I am just thinking back on how I made my sourdough starter. I started from scratch using the
:)
Pineapple Juice Technique, by Debra Wink. It’s mentioned in Eric’s text for the sourdough video. If you click on Make Your Own Sourdough Starter on the left side of the Breadtopia website screen about half down where the videos are mentioned you will find the starter reference and the name is mentioned in the text for the video.
I found that a very good starter base. Also, I do not use rye-flour in my starter.
The other item I do not use either is the molasses. Don’t like the appearance or flavour.
We do not use molasses in our regular rye bread in Germany. However, that is a matter of taste.
Not having the molasses in your dough will automatically reduce your liquid.
Also, I do not use cup measures (have never been able to get along with those unfortunately, always had scales.
My starter is a little thicker than batter, which is easy to achieve, as I said just increase the amount of flour a little.
I am not sure what you mean by a bread pan, have never heard of it or seen one.
I bake my bread in a Roemertopf and that works very well.
Although I have noticed recently that if the dough is over proofed and I then tip it into the hot “pot”
the dough never rises as well afterwards and I do have a few “crinkles” in the bread.
I have tried proofing it in the base of the Roemertopf and then put in hot oven which also gives it a lovely “spring” but there are often problems releasing the bread.
Anyhow, as I said before just play with recipe a little and see what works for you. Do not give up!
I am sure it will eventually all come together for you.
Hi. I was curious – the sourdough starter in this recipe – is it ACTIVE or straight out of the fridge where I keep mine in between weekly ‘feedings’? Thanks!
Can I use whole spelt flour in place of the “bread flour” in this rye bread recipe or would that be too heavy?
I just tried to bake my first bread in my new Romertopf clay pot. After baking, he bread stuck to the pot and wouldn’t come out. When it had cooled, I could pry it out and some of the clay stuck to the bread. Needless to say, the bread didn’t turn out too well. What did I do wrong?
Hi Barbara,
You didn’t do anything wrong. Sometimes there’s a tendency to stick when they’re new. For some reason, it becomes less with use. In the mean time, you can sprinkle some flour in the bottom just before putting in the dough. Or you could use a piece of parchment paper.
Also, the dough is much less inclined to stick if the baker is preheated before putting the dough in. If you did that and it still stuck, try one of the above mentioned things and you should be fine. After a few uses, you shouldn’t have to do anything special.
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