Make Your Own Sourdough Starter

Hi Eric…have just made some of the sourdough starter from this recipe…i too have a lot of yeasty beasties floating around i think as i had no trouble getting the starter bubbling on the third day…is smelling wonderfully sour and can't wait to try it out with the sourdough recipe you have on here…will let you know how it turns out…Nancy

P.S. Happy New Year!!!

Very cool.

And Happy New Year to you!

I saw this article, and checked the fridge I actually had an opened can of pineapple juice that had been open for about two days. It seemed the old juice gave me quicker results. Aprox 24 hours latter I had bubbles and a great sour smell. In case anyone is have problems with fermentation the "aged" pineapple juice has given me a great response.
Happy eating and entertaining

Is this the starter (whole wheat) that you use in the no knead bread video?

Hi Deb,

Good question. No, in the video I'm using plain white starter. But it would be interesting to do a side by side comparison to taste the difference.

At what point do you refrigerate the starter?

Deb -

I don't refrigerate the starter until I've built it up to the quantity I desire. As long as you're feeding your starter a couple times a day, you really don't need to refrigerate it. Probably even once a day would keep it healthy in a cool place.

I've read about professional bakers that don't refrigerate their starter at all because they're baking daily and constantly refreshing their starters. I also think about bakers before refrigeration even existed. I guess they just fed theirs a lot.

How's that for a long winded answer to a simple question?

My starter is ready to go. Now all I need is a recipe in which to use it. One of the posters here refers to a sourdough recipe on breadtopia, but I can't seem to find it……

Presently, I only have one video/recipe posted that uses sourdough. It's at http://www.breadtopia.com/sourdough-no-knead-method
I'm working on some more and will eventually have a lot here, but this site is pretty new and it takes me forever to make them (would you guess?). I'll be sending out email notifications of new postings to everybody who signs up in the upper right corner.

Eric - Just a thought….the videos are great but what about just plain old written recipes in the interest of time until you are able to vide everything?

I think I'll do that with a few no-knead variations that I like. The videos should follow shortly.

Well my starter is alive!

I will add more flour in about one more hour.

Thanks for your video, some people need to see things work instead of reading about it.

I now have a starter from our town, i don't know if different areas produce differnt flavors, but if San Fransico can have a differnt flavor, then us folks in Southwest Oklahoma can have one too.

We grow lots of wheat here, even in front and behind my home, so I'm hoping our flavor will be it's own.

Thanks again for your videos.

My starter exploded this evening shortly after I added the 5 1/4 tbs of flour and 3 tbs of water. It blew the lid off the plastic container and left a nice mess on the ceiling and kitchen cabinets, but I am thrilled that it is alive. I have transferred it to a large container but now it doesn't look so active. Did exploding kill it?

That's funny. I guess now you know to allow a little air flow. I doubt if it's dead. My guess is it's laying low and planning another sneak attack when you're not around.

Just put some back in a container with a LOOSE fitting lid with some more flour and water and leave it the frige. It'll still grow and multiply in the frige, just more slowly.

Exploding starter–too funny! Mine's still on the counter and I've been covering it with a piece of cloth held on by a rubber band.
The surplus starter I put in the fridge. With the addition of a little salt, it makes a good dosa/crepe batter.
I have been experimenting with 100% whole grain starter and bread. So far I like spelt. (The sourdough beasties in my kitchen seem to like it better than wheat.) Do you have any recipes/tips for whole grain sourdough bread?

Hi Christina.

Do you mean 100% whole grain sourdough bread recipes or just recipes with a substantial percentage of whole grain?

That's interesting about your spelt starter. May be of particular interest to anyone with wheat gluten allergies.

100% whole grain sourdough would be ideal.
I'm specifically wondering about the best techniques to use–number of risings, density of dough, using the no-knead method, etc. Appreciate any insights you might have.

There's a strong interest here in this and it's high on my list of things to add to this site. This list now runs to about China, but I think it's all coming together.

Please see the latest comments by Janis (and my reply) over at http://www.breadtopia.com/basic-no-knead-method

See ya.

My husbands grandmother used to make sourdough bread all the time. She got her starter from her grandmoter when she got married. She passed away in 1990 at the age of 79. I would like to continue the tradition of sourdough she had. We have a video tape of her making her bread. The way she did it does not sound the same as all that I have been reading on the internet and your way. She used to save a ball of dough from her batch of bread before cutting it into loaves (this dough included all the ingredients of bread dough such as salt, sugar, and shortening). She would then leave this ball of dough on her counter until bedtime then put it in the frig. The next time she wanted to make bread she would take out her ball of dought the night before bread baking day. Mix it with 4 cups warm water and 5 cups all purpose white flour. Let this sit on her stove until morning then mix in salt, sugar, and shortening, extra flour until bread dough consistency. Let rise 2 hrs then punch down, take out her ball of dough for next time then, cut her loaves and put in pan to rise for 2 hrs. She would bake for 1 hr. This was usually done for lunch time. I have explained all this because I would like to know if you have heard of this way of doing sourdough? I have tried to get it to work and I cannot. I would like to continue to do it her way (it must work, she did it for over 50 years this way) I don't know if I have to start with a starter like you suggest then just take out a ball of dough or what. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Sorry this was so long. Terry

I agree, mostly what I have seen are wet starters. I will continue to try to get a good starter going and once I have that maybe I can try her technique. Thanks for getting back to me and I really enjoy watching your videos. It's always good to see what something is suppose to look like. Thanks again, Terry

Hi Terry,
This method of making bread using a starter created with a piece of dough saved from the last bread baking is often referred to as the "old dough" method. There is a very good recipe in "Baking with Julia" by Julia Child. The recipe is called "mixed starter bread". I used this recipe a lot before I changed to using a sourdough starter exclusively. You can even freeze the piece of saved dough if you don't have time to bake with it regularly. I found the book at my public library.
Janis

Hi, I found a recipe for a sourdough starter in a small book, more of a pamphlet really titled "Healthy Bread recipes & menu planer" and it is:

- 2 cups warm water
- 2 cups flour
- 1 Tbl. Dry yeast
- Mix ingredients
- Cover bowl with towel (to allow airborne yeast to enter, it explains)
- Let sit in warm place for 2-5 days Stirring liquid back into starter daily
- Starter is ready to use when it has a "Sour and yeasty Aroma"

I have noticed that none of the recipes I have found online have used dry yeast is this a valid method? and what do you think of this recipe?

Hi Jacob.
I don't particularly care for a recipe that calls for using a commercial yeast in order to kick start a wild yeast starter. I'm not sure that it's "inavalid" exactly. Bizarre is more like it. The commercial yeast is going to die out eventually and when it does, if you still have a living sourdough culture, it's because some wild yeast got in there and multiplied. The wild yeast getting in there had nothing to do with using commercial yeast to start with, so no point that I can see in using it? Does that make sense?
That's my take anyway.

Hi Eric
We are interested in making a starter for pancakes. What kind of flour do you recommend for sour dough pancakes. Could we still use your receipe you gave on the video?
Thanks, Jerry

Hi Jerry. So glad you asked. I recommend all purpose unbleached, unbromated and preferably organic flour. I don't think any of the current batch of videos would help very much in the creation of pancakes. Of course you are welcome to try and experiment.
I just put this page up: http://www.breadtopia.com/sourdough-waffles-and-pancakes which hopefully will be more helpful. Good luck.
Eric

Yes, Doris, that sounds like a good idea. The purpose is just to keep the dough from drying out while it's sitting for so long. So those tupperware bowls with the lids would be just right.

Hi Eric-

I just found your site tonight, and I'm really enjoying what I've seen so far.

Last week I got the bug to try and make my own natural starter, so I mixed together 1 cup of Bob's Red Mill whole wheat flour, and 1 cup of unbleached AP, plus some filtered water. I stuck it in a cupboard uncovered for several days, feeding it daily. I managed to luck out, and develop a very nice colony of yeast, that so far has almost no sour flavor to the dough. Some may consider this a fault, but since I'm not all that partial to very sour doughs, I find it to be a bonus, especially with the incredible flavor I got from my first loaf. The only thing besides flour and water that I added was around 2 tsp of balsamic vinegar around the 4 day mark, to lower the ph just a bit. I'm sold on using the starter, as I thought the flavor was MUCH better than what I was getting with commercial yeast.

Here's a link to what my first loaf looked like: [image posted below by Breadtopia]

This was kneaded in the stand mixer, rather than doing a "no-knead" version.

Thanks for your hard work!

Chris

Hi Chris,

Thanks for sending this. That's AWESOME looking bread and sounds like it tasted as good as it looks. Very interesting story too about how you made the starter.

I almost wish sourdough starter was known as just "starter" or "wild yeast starter" or "natural leavening" or anything without the word "sour" in it. Even when the starter itself is sour, the bread often is not. Especially when the starter is fresh. The sour taste preference in bread is so personal and maybe regional to some extent. I've read several references stating that French bakers consider sour breads to be the result of some fault in the baking process.

Eric

Hi Eric,
That is interesting that some consider a sour taste to be a fault–it's a fault I've always enjoyed! However, each time I've made sourdough bread the degree of sourness has always been a rather haphazard event. Do you have any sort of list of factors which influence sourness?
Also, as long as we're sharing starter recipes, mine was a few tablespoons water, fresh spelt flour and a little yogurt. I waited until it showed some bubbles to feed it for the first time (on the same mixture). Since then I've just been feeding it water and spelt flour.
Christina

I like sour too sometimes (San Francisco laws of nature, no doubt) and have been trying on and off for years to nail down the factors that I could reproduce reliably. It's been haphazard for me too.

Longer, slower proofing periods by retarding the dough in the fridge overnight or longer helps… sometimes.

"Abusing" the starter helps… maybe. Meaning don't feed it for a few days prior to baking.

Recently, I found adding a whole cup of sourdough starter to the no-knead recipe instead of the 1/4 cup I usually use, increased the sourness significantly. Only that threw off some other things that I haven't yet taken the time to figure out how to compensate for.

Just today, a bread buddy of mine in MN reported getting more a sour flavor by using a rye flour based starter.

Maybe someday I'll get this down. Maybe we'll get lucky and someone reading this will chime in with some answers.

The big name bread book authors must not consider this quest to be all that important. I'm surprised I haven't found this addressed more in any of the books I own. Maybe I need to look again.

Eric

I too have been on a quest for the very-sour-sourdough, and to no avail. A slight tang seems to be the best achievable, and I'm looking for the saliva-inducing sourness I've encountered only in commercially produced breads. What are they doing?

I'll try converting some of my starter to rye, but in the meantime, does really no one know how to create a fiercely sour sourdough?

I was participating in a bread bakers forum on this subject a couple years ago and someone who claimed to have inside knowledge of the San Francisco sourdough bread methods said they use additives to get the very sour flavor, but wouldn't elaborate further.

That wouldn't surprise me a bit. However, a bakery I frequent in Iowa City produces a sourdough boule that is very sour with only the four basic ingredients. I've spoken to the bakers twice now and they even invited me inside their kitchen on my last visit. Very friendly folks and very forthcoming with their techniques. Of course I took notes right away and tried, in vain, to reproduce their bread at home. They said the sour comes from overnight proofing in a refrigerator. Guess my refrigerator is the culprit ;).

A baker at King Arthur Flour advised me to use citric acid (vitamin C) to enhance the sour flavor. But I'm too stuck on trying to get there without "help".

I'm in the middle of making whole wheat cinnamon sticky buns at the moment. Fortunately, "sour" is not an objective here.

Here in sub tropical Brisbane I can grow yeasts under my armpits this time of year! So the starter has taken nicely. Day 3/Step 2 already. It's very humid here: 75% and 26 celsius at 7 o'clock at night.

I also happen to live 200 metres from the Golden Circle Cannery which cans all the pineapples in Australia that are canned so the coincidence was appealing to me as everyday I get to sniff pineapples on the wind and can walk to the cannery shop for my supplies if the impulse takes me. I also have a bread flour shop 200 metres the other way across the railway line that brings the pineapples that are canned in the Golden Circle Cannery that lives on the creek called Cannery Creek…..

I got bubbling activity in the mix after the first 24 hours.

I am passionate about spelt and am hell bent on setting upon the best of all possible spelt recipes as it is a cantankerous flour…

As a follow-up on very sour sourdough starters, I did some research and determined that most of the very sour sourdoughs are "fakes." I don't mind the concept of adding acetic or citric acid (both were advised to me), but I suppose I am a little let down.

After some experimentation, I am fairly convinced that converting to a rye starter has made for a tarter bread.

Some other sour bread fans have strongly advised keeping a pretty dry starter as well, more of a dough than a batter. In combination, now, I have a lump of dry-ish rye starter in my fridge.

In keeping with these theories, I can say for sure that my bread is getting steadily more sour.

I also use a half a cup of starter per loaf.

Hi Sunday (is that your name?)

I recently used a new starter I received from a friend and was amazed at how much more sour than usual my bread turned out. Three loaves later, I'm starting to think it's the starter alone that's making the difference. Or my mind is playing tricks on me, which is certainly possible.

The only thing curbing my enthusiasm is the thought of it being infiltrated and taken over by whatever dominant yeast & Lactobaccilus strains are prevalent here.

I suppose the degree of sour would be enhanced further by using some of the things you've mentioned (rye flour base, low hydration etc.).

Anyway, since you're on "a quest" for the ultimate sour, I'd like to mail you some of this starter and see if you have the same experience. Use the Contact Us link at the top and send me your mailing address. I need an expert quinea pig.

Eric

Eric,

Yes, my name is really Sunday. I was born on a Wednesday and my parents were hippies… all starting to make sense now, yes?

It's funny, I was just having a conversation with my mother where she was insisting that my Ohio yeast "just isn't sour," and then you respond with a similar suspicion. If I weren't such a wet blanket, I'd think there was some mysterious powerful force at work, drawing me to a perfectly sour loaf of bread… yay!

Also as a side note, if you use the online photo tool Flickr (or even if you don't), some folks have started a no-knead bread group. I'd like to see the group really take off - I like looking at other people's breads almost as much as I like eating them.

Anyhow, in case you don't allow HTML, here's the long link: http://www.flickr.com/groups/noknead/

That's hilarious.

Thanks for the Flickr link. I think there's a way I can feed that to this site. It's all about feeding isn't it? Will find out shortly.

Hello Eric,
Yesterday I received my La Cloche Oblong Clay Baker. It is just as I expected, however, the top and bottom do not align. Is that something I should be concerned about?
I am an absolute rookie about about this entire bread baking experience and perhaps it is supposed to be this way and I just do not know it. ):
Thank you,
Cam

Hi Cam,

The La Cloche top should overlap the base by a little bit all the way around and it's kind of a loose fit.

Eric

How much starter does your recipe make? and it is ok to use other types of flour instead of wheat correct? Also, does the soury flavor get more potent and better with time? thankyou.

Hi Steve,

I never really measured how much it makes. Initially, it won't be very much, but you just keep feeding it until you have the quantity you want.

You can use any kind of flour you want. The main reason I recommend whole wheat flour to get the sourdough starter going is just because whole grains are likely to harbor more yeast spores than refined flour and so increase your likelihood of success. Whole rye flour works well too. Once you've got a lively sourdough culture, it's easy to transition to another type of flour.

It may take a week or two to achieve full flavor and sour potency. The sour comes from the acids which are produced by naturally occurring (beneficial) bacteria. The bacteria multiply more slowly than the yeast. So generally speaking, the longer you let your starter sit around without feeding it, the more sour it will become. Of course if you don't feed it for too long, the starter will begin to suffer. So there is a balance to getting just the sour you want while still maintaining a healthy starter.

The key to this as most things is just get started and in time you'll get the feel of it.

Eric

my starter worked! but i had a question… how sealed does the container i keep it in have to be? should i possibly take out the rubber grommet in the lid to make it not air tight or poke a hole in the lid or something? also, my starter seems to not be as lively as it was a few days ago… did i sufficate it or something? but it still does smell sour like sourdough does, or am i just missing the peaking time for my starter? thanks.

Taking the rubber grommet out is what I do and that works great. You definitely don't want an air tight seal (see Deb's Jan. 19th comments above regarding "exploding starter").

Starter does get moody from time to time and seems to go a bit dormant. Feeding it well and letting it sit a room temp for a 1/2 day or so should resuscitate it nicely.

Hello!

I'm a total novice at baking bread, but I'm very interested in learning how, and especially want to explore creating and using my own homemade wild yeast starter. (I like that phrase too!)

Recently I've been experimenting with making kefir out of raw milk, using real kefir grains. Someone here mentioned using yoghurt to get a starter going, and I wondered if maybe it might be possible to use some of my home brewed kefir instead of pineapple juice, since kefir is already fermented, and contains all sorts of lively yeasts and beneficial bacteria. Do you think this might work?

Any input on this idea would be appreciated, and thanks, Eric, for this very informative site with these great videos!

elan

Hi Elan,

Thanks for the kind feedback.

As far as your idea working, I really don't know but it sure sounds like it's worth trying. I subscribe to a couple of sourdough bread user groups where I'd bet someone has some experience to share on that one. I like http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sourdough.

So far, I've only tried making my own starter a couple of times. Once using a technique from Nancy Silverton's book involving smashed up grapes in a cheese cloth - didn't work for me, and then the pineapple juice technique.

If you do try out your idea and it works, I'd love to hear about it.

Eric

I too have successfully followed your sourdough recipe. I have not tried to make bread yet. I did make another sourdough starter and I used the recipe that was in my Breadman recipe book. It called for 2 cups of flour, 2 cups of water and 1 tablespoon of yeast. It worked and I got a starter and I made one loaf of white bread with it using the Breadman recipe. I chose not to put in the optional 1 tablespoon of oil and I used 1 tablespoon of Splenda instead of sugar. It raised fine and it was good but it was not sour. It is a dense bread. I didn't think it was very flavorful but I had made a loaf of whole wheat bread the day before and used 3 tablespoons of Splenda brown sugar instead of the called for real brown sugar. It was very good and had much flavor but I also added the 3 tablespoons of oil that the receipe called for.

So now I am excited to use the whole wheat starter in some wheat bread. I have searched on line for a sourdough whole wheat receipe for the bread machine and I have found a few. I will try it this next week.
Thank you for all of your effort and time with your video. I found it very helpful.
I started doing this because my daughter came home with the Amish Friendship bread recipe and starter. We did that and of course it is delicious. My daughter said she would like to try sourdough for other types breads so that is how we started with it.

Thanks again.
Diane A

We really liked your video. It was very interesting. We think we will try to make our own starter. We are excited! =)

Cool. Let me know how it goes.

Eric

Hi,

I enjoyed watching your video. I made a successful starter and have kept it going for a few months now and mine is VERY sour… trouble is, the bread it makes is very heavy and so I'm going to try lots of different recipes to see if I can make a lighter one. I don't know if it's the recipe or the starter. I used a recipe in Wild Fermentation by Sandor Katz. It certainly bubbles up okay but when it actually gets baked it ends up very heavy. So I'll try your recipe and see how I get on. Otherwise I might try to start another starter. Thanks for your instructions, though. It helps to find out a bit more about the science behind it.

Hi Liz,

Are you feeding your starter well prior to baking? A good test of your starter's vitality is if you feed it the day before you plan to bake and the volume of starter roughly doubles from its level just after mixing in the fresh flour and water, then it should perform adequately the next day when you bake.

Eric

Yes, I think so. But I have picked up quite a few tips about doing things differently from your no-knead video so I'll try those. The recipe in Wild Fermentation uses much more starter - 2 cups - so I'll try your recipe with just a quarter cup. And I have a Le Creuset casserole so I'll try baking it in that.

Also I think I've been letting it rise for too long, thinking that more is better, without realising that actually it is NOT better! Once I left it in the airing cupboard overnight (after the kneading stage) and it escaped from the (very large) bowl and ended up all over the floor there! But the recipe called for a second rise and that didn't rise much at all and the bread turned out very hard.

I'll try doing it your way and let you know how I get on! (I'm in the UK, by the way, so the flour and stuff will be different).

Hi there. I've just read Terry's comments of 27th January regarding a dough starter and then found a recipe for its creation in Jamie Oliver's "Happy Days With The Naked Chef" (that's its English title, it may be called something else in the US). His recipes are always reliable and very straightforward. I'm going to give it a go but first need to source some organic rye flour. I didn't want to copy the details straight over because of potential copyright infringement. What do you think?

I think it's okay to post it. I'll add a link to Amazon where the book can be purchased if anybody wants to. This can only help the author and publisher.

Hi Mary

If you're in the UK, Doves Farm do organic rye flour - Sainsburys sell it, I think. I get mine from my local health food shop but the supermarkets definitely sell Doves Farm. http://www.dovesfarm.co.uk/stockists.htm would tell you.

Hi Liz,

Thanks very much for the tip about the organic rye flour - as it's a Jamie Oliver recipe I guess it WOULD be found in Sainsburys! I'm actually in France at the moment but will definitely do the Doves Farm thing when I'm back in England in July. Meanwhile, is there anyone in France reading this who knows where to buy organic rye flour?

Hi, Regarding my post of 30th May, here is the recipe for a dough starter, taken from "Happy Days With The Naked Chef" by Jamie Oliver - the link with Amazon sounds an excellent idea. The first time will take six days and after that you'll always have a piece of the dough starter for next time.

Day One: Mix 500g/1lb 2oz of organic rye flour with enough water to make a soft dough, in a bowl. Put it outside for an hour, then bring it inside to a warm place and cover with cling film.

Day Two: It will start to bubble. Leave it alone.

Day Three: The mix will continue to bubble and will go slightly grey. At this point, stir in a handful of flour and little bit of water, enough to get the mixture back to the same consistency as Day One. Leave it again, still covered.

Day Four: Leave it alone.

Day Five, afternoon: By now, you'll have a beery, malty-smelling, ashy-coloured mixture, full of natural yeasts, with loads of character. Make your bread by adding all of this starter dough mix to 1kg/2lb 3oz strong flour, then adding enough water to make a firm, pliable dough that is not sticky. Knead it for a good 5 minutes.

Remove a 500g/1lb 2oz piece of dough for your next starter BEFORE adding any salt, cover and put to one side, ready to repeat the process the next day, and so on, etc.

Add salt if you want to. Shape the dough and put it into a bowl or tin lined with a floured tea-towel. Leave for 14 hours.

Day Six, morning: Bake the bread. Preheat the oven to 190 Celsius / 375 Fahrenheit / Gas Mark 5. Gently turn the dough out onto a floured baking tray, cut quite deep slashes into it, and bake for 1 hour or until it is crisp and sounds hollow when tapped on the bottom. Allow to cool.

Sounds easy doesn't it? I hope Terry finds it useful as well as everyone else.

Hi, I really enjoyed your video, it made it much easier to understand how to make the sourdough starter. I made two starters, one with whole wheat and the other with sprouted whole wheat. They both seem to have life. Neither of my starters have "risen" after I feed them though. They have lots of bubbles and gets frothy, but not rising. Also, what consistency is the starter suppose to be? The whole wheat is thicker than the sprouted. Thanks for any help!

Hi Mon,

Glad the videos helped.

I really don't have much experience with maintaining a whole wheat starter. I think you might have a much better experience with rising with a white flour starter. You could start feeding your WW starter with white flour just to get a feel for it then transition back by resuming feeding with WW again.

With a white flour starter, you aught to see a significant rise after feeding, as much as doubling of the original volume. It seems like there should be at least some rise with WW as well.

As for consistency, people successfully manage their starters at a wide range of consistencies according to their personal preference and/or what a recipe might call for. I personally like to maintain a thickish culture. So when I feed my starter, I add equal weights of flour and water. That works out to about 2/3 to 3/4 cups of water for every cup of white flour. Whole wheat flour takes more water than white so I suppose a 1 to 1 ratio of water and flour by volume might be the ticket.

Eric

Hi Eric,

I have to tell you: Yesterday I baked my first bread in the la Cloche. It was great! The best looking bread I ever baked.
I simply wanted to try, so I added less water to the receipe I sent to you, which consist just of whole grain and sourdough. I even could kneat it by hand, it was not sticky. it did not rise very much, but in the la cloche it rised even more than double.
I still use your sourdough starter, it is still the same.
Perhaps a little help to mon, my starter bubbles in the fridge, but does not rise very much. I even made the bread yesterday with starter out of the fridge with no bubbles at all. After feeding 1/2 whole rye flour (self made) and 1/2 water in weigth, it started to bubble in the fridge again.

Best regards from Vienna

Doris

P.s. now I am starting to use one of your no kneat rec

Does it give a different taste to the sour dough in San Francisco and will this recipe work with the conditions in New Zealand because to make sour dough i was told you have to have the extact right conditions.

Thanks

Hi Tom,

Different sourdough starters have different tastes due to a variety of factors including the strains of lactobacillic acid (beneficial bacteria) present in your starter. These strains vary by region and are one of the main components of starter. Mostly, the perceived flavor differences are slight.

There is wide range of conditions under which sourdough cultures can be started and maintained. This recipe will work well in New Zealand.

When looking for the right word to describe the "sour" smell, I think fermented hits the nail on the head. My Polish husbands grandmother used to bake sourdough bread in a wood fired brick oven from grains she grew on her farm and ground fresh on the spot. Hence, bread from the store is just plain awful to him. Since this was my first try at making sourdough culture, he reassured me that the fermented smell was exactly what it should smell like! My first starters worked perfectly, thanks to all the great info Eric provided. It's really amazing that such simple ways of life (like making your own sourdough culture) are becoming lost arts. Thanks again Eric for the wonderful videos and info.

Kalindi

FYI:
I made four sourdough starters about a week ago. Three following the pineapple juice method on this site, except one had pineapple juice, one had water, and one had water with 0.4-1% citric acid by weight (the same as pineapple juice). The fourth was a starter following the recipe in "The Professional Chef" which is a textbook-like cooking book put out by the culinary arts institute. This starter has much less liquid in it than the others and is more like a piece of stiff dough.

My results: The professional chef starter turned up as a failure and actually molded. The three starters based on the pineapple method turned out identical in every way, although the pineapple juice seemed just the slightest bit more active earlier (maybe due to extra sugar from the juice). I should note that after about 2 days the starter with just pure water in it had a funny smell compared with the two with citric acid, but after that it matched the others.

Take from that what you will, thanks for the info Eric.

JB

Thanks for your report, John. This should be an inspiration to anyone thinking of trying to make their own sourdough starter. There's the occasional failure, but the odds of success are decent.

A couple years back I tried to duplicate Nancy Silverton's method using smashed grapes and ended up with a moldy putrid mess. Had I kept trying, I suppose it would have worked eventually. The citric acid in the pineapple juice does seem to help.

Hi Eric,
will tap water filtered through a "Britta" water filter pitcher be ok to use as " The purified water" in the sourdough starter recipie?

Hi Mike,

That should be fine. It's just the chlorine you want to get rid of and charcoal filters do a good job of that. Even letting tap water sit out overnight allows the chlorine to evaporate.

Eric

hi eric,,well i thought my sourdough starter that i made five days ago wwas viable..however,my nk bread had practically no rise..which is amazing since my starter has huge air pockets in its jar in the fridge..followed all the instructions to a t and i have a lovely door stop..should i chuck the starter and start again…???

Hi Ronnie,

It's probably not the starter. I see your follow up message over at http://www.breadtopia.com/sourdough-no-knead-method, so I'll pick it up there…

I am a visual learner and appreciate your time in making the videos. I am only 24 hours into my starter and already have some minor activity. I have two questions. The first, how long after the starter is finished can you utilize it for baking? The second, what can one do to determine the "Sour-ness" of the end product? Beginner here!

Thanks

I made a sourdough starter using equal parts boiled potato water and a.p flour,the very next day I had lots of bubbles! I feed it once daily 1/4 cup r.o water and 1/4 cup ap flour. It is 2 weeks old now and I plan on trying it out with the sourdough no knead bread,I hope my beasties are strong enough!

Michelle

Hi Mark,

Part of getting the starter ready for baking is just building up a sufficient quantity. Probably the best test of readiness is when you feed it well, you should see a substantial increase in the volume of the starter within a few hours of feeding at room temperature. For example, if you have a half cup of starter and feed it by mixing in a half cup of flour and a half cup of water, then mark the container and you should see the level rise roughly 75-100%. That's a good indication that your starter is very vigorous (at full strength).

As for what determines the degree of sourness, if you find out, please let me know. I'm only sort of kidding. There are a number of things you can try that may influence the degree of sour, many are discussed in a conversation above starting in a Feb 19th thread and continuing into March. The challenge for me has always been getting predictable results.

Michelle - let us know how it goes!

Eric

My sourdough bread using my potato water and ap white flour sd starter turned out very well.I baked it in my Le Creuset pot for the instruted time,I believe I can reduce my baking time by atleast 5 minutes since my bottom crust was almost burnt! It didnt hurt anything,bottom crust tasted like toast which didnt bother me much. It proofed nicely and tasted (inner part) as sourdough bread should.I should also mention that I used all ap white flour,no whole wheat.I have taken pictures but I am not sure of how to post them?

I have made (nyt) no knead bread many times with very good results, I found that making no knead sourdough bread just as easy to make as the (nyt)no knead bread.If you would like to see others pictures of no knead bread (including mine)go to sausagemaking.org forum and do a search for " The New York Times - A New way to make bread? " I have enjoyed seeing all the pictures and comments on thier efforts on making this bread. Just though you might like to see them too.Best wishes!

Michelle

Eric,

My starter "started" out well,but fizzled out. I read from previous articles and added some vinegar to the mix. I then had minor fermentation, and fizzled out again. In a desperate attempt I dipped my finger in a small bag of saf-instant (S.I.Lesaffre) and stirred the mixture. I know that is frowned upon by bread makers, but I live very close to the coast. Thus, I keep the AC at low temperatures. Therefore, I am assuming that climate, hummidity, and elevation could play a role in successful or un-successful starters. Having done that, it is activated. Lots of bubbles, and pressure when I release the lid. All that being said, It has been about 14 days at room temperature, and smells wonderfully sour, is it still safe to bake with? I have fed it daily and was not sure when to refrigerate the starter? Thanks for the well packaged shipment! The two La Cloche bakers and proofing basket were received in excellent condition. Regards!

Hi Mark,

I think I've heard of people kick starting their starter with a bit of commercial yeast, so what you did is probably fine and not unprecedented. The thing is, if it's been 14 days and it's going strong, you have a wild sourdough culture. If you didn't, there's no way a little commercial yeast is going to sustain the fermentation action anywhere near that long.

Now that it's going strong, you'll probably want to start storing it the fridge so you don't have to feed it every day.

One more thing. I sounds like you're keeping the lid on your starter container too tight. A little air should be able to flow so that pressure you mentioned doesn't build up. There are some funny stories about peoples starter exploding all over their fridges.

Glad your things arrived safely. Keep in touch.

Eric

Michelle (see a few comments above) sent me a link to view some of her recent no knead bread creations. They look fabulous!

You can view them all by visiting http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=firstnnsd002ui4.jpg and clicking on the link at the top of the page that says "See More Images By This User".

Here is a small but nice sampling of the gallery…

Made your whole wheat sourdough starter. It appeared fine up to the last feeding which produced a stiff starter. I don't believe mine is as pourable as some of your videos…what should I do? I have done 1 maintenance feeding and I think that I should increase the mass of my starter before using it as I'm sure everyone is going to want some. Do you think that I need to use 3/4 c. of water instead of the 2/3? Any suggestions will be great. I will try to uplink photos as as I figure out how.

It doesn't need to be pourable to be effective, but if you want to add more water it certainly won't hurt. I'd like to see any photos but you'll need to email them to me as there's no way (at present) to upload photos directly to the site.

Hello. Thanks for your website and video.
I experimented with вышеупомянутым recipe Jamie Oliver(June 3, 2007 Mary Peters @ 11:02)
the Photo of process: http://www.gotvetesmen.com/forum/index.php?topic=283.165 - here Russian (or the Bulgarian language)

I used raw apple juice instead of pineapple, I had checked that they both had the same quantity of acid present, apple of course being malic instead of citric, it worked very well for me, lovely apple smell along with the sour smell present at first.

Thanks for this information, Jean. I've added a reference to your post at the bottom of the instructions.

Eric

I am now living in Singapore and they don't have most of the grocery items familiar to us in the US. What is the unsweetened pineapple juice are you referring to? Is it the juice from canned pineapple or fresh squeezed pineapple juice? Thanks.

I just used the juice from canned pineapple, but either would work well.

For those who are still struggling with making your own sourdough starter, Peter Reinhart in his book "Bread Baker's Apprentice" has a different sourdough starter recipe than the one posted on breadtopia.com website. I just started it and it's really strong and active. If anyone is insterested in it, please let me know and I will send it to you.

OK, here we go.

Seed Culture:

Day 1: 1 cup dark rye or coarse whole rye (pumpernickel-grind) flour, 3/4 cup water at room temperature. Mix the flour and water together in a bowl until they form a stiff ball of dough. Do not worry if the dough is very stiff, but be sure that all the flour is hydrated. Press this piece of dough into a 4-cup measuring beaker and place a piece of tape on the beaker to mark the top of the dough. Cover the beaker with plastic wrap and leave it at room temperature for 24 hours.

Day 2: 1 cup unbleached high-gluten or bread flour, 1/2 cup water at room temperature. The dough should not have risen much, if at all, during this time. In a mixing bowl, combine the Day 2 ingredients with the Day 1 sponge, mixing with your hand or a spoon until all the ingredients are evenly distributed. The dough will be somewhat softer and wetter than the Day 1 sponge. Return this to the beaker, pressing it down, and replace the old tape with a new piece of tape to mark the spot. Cover with plastic wrap and ferment for 24 hours at room temperature. Do not be put off by the strong, unpleasant aroma of the dough. This will eventually brighten as it nears the finish line.

Day 3: 1 cup unbleached high-gluten or bread flour, 1/2 cup water at room temperature. Check to see if there has been a rise in the dough. There will probably be some fermentation but not a lot, perhaps a 50 percent rise. Regardless, discard half of the starter (or give it to a friend to cultivate), and mix the remaining half with the Day 3 ingredients, as on the previous day. It will be a little wetter. Again, return it to the beaker. It should press down to the same height as on Day 2. Re-tape the beaker to mark the top of the dough, cover, and ferment for 24 hours.

Day 4: 1 cup unbleached high-gluten or bread flour, 1/2 cup water at room temperature. The sponge should have at least doubled in size; more is even better. If it is still sluggish and hasn't doubled in size, allow it to sit out for another 12 to 24 hours. Otherwise, repeat as on Day 3, discarding half of the starter and mixing the remaining half with the new ingredients, returning it to the beaker as before. Cover and ferment until it at least doubles in size. This may take 4 to 24 hours. It is okay if it triples in size, but because it is now fairly soft and spongelike, it will not be able to sustain that large of a rise without falling. If it falls easily when you tape the beaker, that is the sign that your seed culture is ready to be turned into barm, or mother starter.

Barm (Makes approximately 6 cups or 2 1/2 pounds barm)
3 1/2 cups unbleached high-gluten or bread flour
2 cups water at room temperature
1 cup seed culture

Stir together the flour, water and seed culture in a mixing bowl (you can discard the remaining seed culture or give it to a friend to build into his or her own barm). Make sure the seed culture is evenly distributed and all the flour is hydrated. It will make a wet, sticky sponge similar to a poolish. Transfer this sponge to a clean plastic, glass, or ceramic storage container as large as the barm. When transferring the barm into the container, repeatedly dip your hand, spatula, or bowl scraper in water to keep the barm from sticking to it. Cover the container with a lid of plastic wrap and ferment at room temperature for approximately 6 hours, or until the barm is bubbly. The plastic wrap will swell like a balloon, as will a plastic lid. When this happens, open the lid or release the plastic to let the gas escape (try not to breathe it as it escapes - the carbonic gas mixed with ethanol fumes will knock you across the room). Replace the cover and refrigerate overnight before using. The barm will be ready to use the next day and will remain potent for 3 days. After that, or if you use more than half during the next 3 days, you will need to refresh it.

A few comments from me:

When I mixed 1 cup of rye flour and 3/4 cup of water in day 1, it was very wet, like soup, and there was no way I could have kneaded it. So I don't know what Peter is talking about here. Maybe it's the pathetic rye flour here in Singapore that doesn't have much body.

I stored day 1's mixture in an air-tighht glass jar with a rubber seal and wire closure. I didn't expect much activities as Peter said there wouldn't be much after 24 hours. Well, I was very surprised to see the dough had risen significantly, if not double, at least 70%. When I opened the lid, there was a loud pop due to the gas build-up, and strong unpleasant smell. The mixture is well underway of fermentation.

As I followed the intructions for day 2 and day 3, the dough got stiffer because it seems to me I am adding more flour than water with the ratio Peter gave. But things look very active and the dough rises very well. So I guess everything is just fine.

Hope this helps.

This is a question about maintaining starters. All the info out there is making my head spin. Earlier this spring we cultured a successful starter, and made rye bread all summer. However, we have been using it less, and storing it in the fridge. I notice that the bread is rising more poorly each time, so I guess I'm not maintaining it correctly. So, my question:If I fed it weekly, how much of the starter do u discard? How much do u replace? Do you need to proof it, or see bubbly activity each time before you put it back in the fridge? Thanks!

It's pretty hard to pinpoint things from a distance, but feeding once a week is enough to keep a starter alive but probably not enough to keep it in good shape. You might try feeding it a couple times a day for 2 days just to bring it back to full strength. You can leave it on the counter while you're feeding it that often.

Maybe try tossing all but a 1/2 cup of starter. Then feed it 1 cup of flour and about 3/4 water in the morning. Sometime before the day is out, it should have risen quite a bit and be pretty bubbly. Repeat this process a couple of times and your starter should be great shape.

There's so much information out there because there's about a million ways of answering your question that are all valid. I doubt if any two people do things the exact same way.

I think Peter Reinhart's view in his book is that it's important to discard at least half of the sourdough starter, and put in equal weight of flour and water, to let it rise again. That supposedly makes it strong and active.

Thanks both for the input. Just to clarify, I think both of you (and particularly Shuang) are suggesting that I make sure that post feeds, the starter gets bubbly and risen BEFORE putting it back in the fridge. Am i right in interpreting it this way? Tatiana

Yes I believe you should wait till it doubles, then stir it down before you put it in the fridge.

According to Peter Reinhart, if you have been using and feeding your barm (sourdough starter) regularly, you do not necessarily have to discard any. However, what you do not want to do is, for example, use 1 cup of barm from your supply to make some bread, then refresh the remaining barm with only 1 cup flour and some water. You must always at least double the remaining barm. You can do this by either throwing or giving some away before you refresh it, or using up more before refreshing it (remember, you have a 3-day window before you need to feed it again).

The above is a direct quote from Peter Reinhart's book. I take it to mean that you before you feed, you should either use up or discard most of your sourdough starter. That somehow would make it stronger and less likely to go bad. I have had my sourdough starter go bad several times now, but I still don't know exactly why. I will try this time, by discarding or using more of my starter before feeding it, and see how it goes.

Thanks!! Will experiment.

I have a slightly different take on your "doubling before returning to fridge" question.

After I feed my starter, I will wait for it to "top out" (about double) if I'm going to bake with it right away or very soon. But if I know I'm not going to bake for a while (a few days or more), I will return it to the fridge right after I feed it. This is because in my fridge the starter will continue to feed on the fresh flour and continue to rise but at a much much slower rate due to the cold. So this just buys me more time before I have to feed it again.

I believe breadtopia has a very good point. I trust you have tried this slow cold ferment method and have had good results? Will try again next time when I feed. Can someone confirm if my understanding is correct in that I should every time discard or use up more than half the sourdough starter and then feed it?

By the way, for those of you who want to have an easy way to get your sourdough starter, you can request it from Carl Griffith, at the following link:

http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/

He will provide it for free as long as you send in a self-addressed stamped envelope.

My mother kept her starter for a week or perhaps more in a glass jar, in the darkness of her dirt-floor cellar, on a stair just two steps down through the doorway. She kept it covered with either a piece of wax paper or cheese cloth, secured with a string. She only added flour & water at the weekly baking.

Eric: I really like your web site. I'm new to Sourdough - got interested in it by my brother's Sourdough waffles - and started with your tip about the friends of Carl. The dried starter they supplied took off right away (very basic reconstitution - just used all purpose flour and tap water). My first attempt at baking was Jacki's rich waffle recipe from your site and they were GREAT (my brother calls them Firebuilders waffles and agrees that they trump his recipe). Then, feeling adventurous, I took a shot at making my "own" starter. Using the method you outlined (I said I liked your site), I got a VERY healthy culture going (after the fourth feeding, it overflowed the container) using King Arthur White Whole Wheat flour and unsweetened pineapple juice (small can of crushed pineapple) to start, then continued with purified water. I'm really having fun with this - thanks for all the tips and information.
Tim (Phoenix, AZ)

Cool. Thanks for the feedback.

I can see that yet another hapless victim is now addicted to sourdough. My plan is unfolding just as I'd hoped.