No Knead Recipe Variations
| Menu of No Knead Videos: | |
| ► Cranberry-Pecan |
► Seeded Sour |
| ► Parmesan-Olive |
► Steel Cut Oats |
Here are some of my favorite No-Knead bread recipes. Each is distinctly different from the others, touching on some of what’s possible with this simple and hugely time saving bread baking method.
(Note: If you’re brand new to no knead bread baking, I strongly encourage you to give the basic no knead recipe a try first before moving into the variations.)
In each of the videos you will see I’m using sourdough starter as the leavening agent. The use of sourdough starter is usually my preference in baking but as the written instructions indicate, you can just as easily substitute instant yeast for the starter by mixing 1/4 teaspoon of instant yeast in with the dry ingredients and leaving out the sourdough starter entirely. It’s that simple. I don’t want to see anyone deprived of the luxury of this bread experience if instant yeast is your preference for leavening.
As always, feel free to play with different flour mixes and ingredients to come up with your ultimate bread masterpiece.
Please leave your comments, questions and experiences at the bottom of the page.
December 14th, 2007 Update: Check out Kendra’s recipe for cinnamon raisin bread below. It sounds awesome. Thanks Kendra!
Also, see the post by Joanne Polayes with her variation of the cranberry pecan recipe.
July 2008 addition: Definitely check out Carolyn’s No Knead Sourdough Lavender Bread. Wow, well done Carolyn!
Jan. 27 2009 addition: For a great looking focaccia recipe, see Hedy’s post. And a little below that, Toni offers her focaccia variation which includes whole grains.
Feb. 9, 2009: See a Newfoundland favorite by Janet Kelly. Thanks Janet!
March 31, 2009: Donna Wakefield has discovered that baking with keifer for both leavening and flavor produces excellent bread. Her posts start here and continue under her name (”Donna” and “Donna Wakefield”).
Cranberry-Pecan Extraordinaire
(makes 1 loaf)
1/2 cup (2 1/2 oz.) whole wheat flour
2 1/2 cups (13 oz.) all purpose or bread flour
1 1/2 tsp. salt
1/2 cup dried sweetened cranberries
1/2 cup pecan pieces
1 1/2 cups purified water
1/4 cup sourdough starter or 1/4 tsp. instant yeast
(Read paragraph near top of page for instant yeast version of this recipe)
- Combine the flours and salt
- Mix the starter into the water until mostly dissolved
- Mix the water/starter solution into the dry ingredients
- Mix in the pecans and craisins
- Cover bowl with plastic at let sit at room temperature for 18 hours
- After 18 hours turn dough onto well floured surface and gently flatten enough to fold dough back onto itself a couple times to form a roundish blob. Note: This folding stage can be accomplished within the bowl, speeding up the process even further and leaving less of a cleanup.
- Cover blob with plastic and let rest 15 minutes. During this rest period, coat a proofing basket or towel lined bowl with bran flakes.
- Gently and quickly shape blob into an approximate ball and place in proofing basket or bowl.
- Cover with a towel and let rise for 1-2 hours depending on room temperature.
- As gently as possible, flip the dough into a Dutch oven or ceramic (e.g. La Cloche) baker preheated to 500F degrees and bake covered for 30 minutes. Remove cover and bake an additional 15 minutes at 450 degrees. See Great No-Knead Baking Techniques for more tips.
- Allow bread to cool completely before slicing and eating. Warning: this most difficult step requires superhuman discipline and restraint.
You may have to adjust the baking times and temperatures to adapt to the various weights and materials of different baking containers.
Seeded Sour
(makes 1 loaf)
This recipe holds a solid spot on my “all time favorites” list. It is adapted from the George’s Seeded Sour recipe in Nancy Silverton’s Breads from the La Brea Bakery book.
1/4 cup (1 oz) rye flour
1/2 cup (2 1/2 oz) whole wheat flour
2 1/2 cups (13 oz) all purpose or bread flour
1 1/2 tsp. salt
3 1/2 tsp. quinoa
3 1/2 tsp. millet
2 Tbs. amaranth
1/2 Tbs. poppy seeds
1 1/2 cups water
1/4 cup sourdough starter or 1/4 tsp. instant yeast
2 Tbs. yogurt
Seed Topping Ingredients:
1 Tbs. amaranth
1/4 cup sesame seeds
1 1/2 Tbs poppy seeds
2 Tbs. anise seeds
1 1/2 tsp. fennel seeds
Combine all the dry ingredients (except the topping ingredients) and then add to that the combined wet ingredients.
The rest of the baking steps are the same as those listed above for the Cranberry Pecan bread.
As shown in the video, I coat the proofing basket with the combined topping ingredients so they stick to the dough during the final rise.
Parmesan-Olive
(makes 1 large loaf)
This recipe makes one amazing loaf of bread. It’s great for special occasions, and considering the price of ingredients, you may want to reserve it for special occasions. Use fresh parmesan cheese and it’s likely you will not find this loaf’s equivalent in any bakery. They would have to charge too much!
1/2 cup (2 1/2 oz.) whole wheat flour
2 2/3 cups (13 1/2 oz.) bread flour
1 tsp. salt
7 oz. grated fresh parmesan cheese
2/3 cup pitted kalamata olives (cut in half lengthwise)
1 3/4 cup purified water
1/4 cup sourdough starter or 1/4 tsp. instant yeast
Follow the same steps as those listed above for the Cranberry Pecan recipe. Combine the dry ingredients (including the cheese) then add to that the combined wet ingredients and then stir in the olives. The ingredient measurements are a little different than usual as the cheese is salty to start with and the dry mix takes more water than usual.
Steel Cut Oats
(makes 1 loaf)
It’s amazing what the addition of a mere half cup of steel cut oats can do to enhance and vary the quality of a basic loaf of no knead bread. During the long fermentation period, the grains soften and swell to give the bread a wholesome and satisfying flavor and texture.
Simple enough to whip together in a heartbeat and interesting enough to become a regular in your no knead rotation.
3/4 cup (3 oz.) whole wheat flour
1/2 cup (3 oz.) steel cut oats
2 1/4 cups (10 oz.) bread flour
1 1/2 tsp. salt
1 1/2 cups water
1/4 cup firm sourdough starter or 1/4 tsp. instant yeast
Pictured here: Awesome steel cut oats no knead by Breadtopia reader Marianne Preston
Another Breadtopia reader, Allan Castine, offered this…
In my last e-mail to you, I mentioned that I had made your steel cut oats bread recipe with mostly excellent results. My only concern, as I told you, was that the bread was a bit bland for my particular taste.
I made the recipe again yesterday with a couple of alterations:
I added an extra 1/2 teaspoon of salt and, following a suggestion from a friend of mine, I lightly toasted the oats in a dry saucepan over medium heat before adding them to the flour mixture.
The results were great. The bread was very tasty, i.e., not bland.
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Oh, wow, those look great!
I don’t have a kitchen scale (I know, I know) so could you take a guess at a volume measurement for the cheese?
Is “a lot” a standard international unit of volume measure? Seriously, I should have thought of that. It’s at least 2 cups. Maybe a little more, but 2 cups of grated parmesan should give you the appropriate (eyes rolling back in their sockets) effect.
I have been toying with my sourdough starter you sent me a few months back and am THRILLED that I’m not alone in trying new ways to incorporate new ingredients. I have both a whole-wheat and a plain white starter that I feed and whose toss-aways have done many things, including become pizza crusts.
I cannot wait to try the parm-olive here. With the breads your starter has bred (haha) here, every day is a special occasion! – connie
I need help in getting BIG holes in my no-knead bread. I have followed everything to the letter. I get a few big holes but not a many as I would like. Can you help. I have 85% hydration. Proof for 20 hrs. and then 3hrs.
Jerry:
All of the new recipes look great. I have the olives and Parmesan cheese on hand so I will be able to start the third recipe tonight. Rather than delay until my sourdough is ready, I will be using instant yeast and will increase the water to the normal 1 and 1/2 cups. I’ll let you know how it comes out.
Jerry in Seattle
Hi Jerry. I look forward to hearing about it. I find I have to use more than 1 and 1/2 cups water with the amount of flour and parmesan listed above. But then, once you’ve made a few no-knead loaves it’s not hard to just go by feel on the moisture level.
Hi Eric,
I tried a variation on your cranberry variation. (I used walnuts, ’cause I had them & added orange zest and cardamom and 1 cup whole spelt flour because I like them.) It came out great, this despite the power going out while I was preheating the pot. As many have pointed out, NKB is sooo forgiving! It didn’t seem to mind at all being driven across town in near freezing weather and waiting in the car while my friends’ oven heated up! (And my friends didn’t mind either. They devoured the part of the loaf I left with them.) Thanks again for the great site.
Hi Joanne,
Sorry, I didn’t see your post when you sent it.
Generally speaking the higher the hydration the bigger the holes and your hydration is WAY high. I use about 75% hydration, proof for 18 hrs and rise for 1 and 1/2 hrs. I get very big holes if I use all white flour. Specifically, high gluten bread flour. The high gluten helps with the big holes. Look for flour labeled “bread” flour. The more whole wheat flour you use the harder it is to get big holes because the sharp edges of the bran cuts the gluten walls which create the air pockets (holes).
I decided to delay making the parmesan-olive bread until I have a dinner party. Instead, I got the sourdough starter which you sent me really alive and made the cranberry-pecan bread. It is magnificent! It made a taller loaf than any I have made previously and the flavor is great.
I am about to try to make a sourdough no-knead bread version of Peter Reinhart’s Cajun Three-Pepper Bread. The recipe is in his Brother Juniper’s Bread Book. When I get it working right, I will send the recipe.
Jerry in Seattle
Okay, Cajun Three-Pepper Bread sounds great. You’re on record now, we’ll be looking out for that!
I am just starting with the no-knead recipe. I have a cast iron dutch oven. It is already “seasoned’. Do I need to do anything else to the pot? Oil it, anything?
Hi Anna. Maybe Christina knows the answer, she uses a cast iron dutch oven. Christina?
Eric
I adapted the Peter Reinhart recipe for Three-Pepper bread. It came out very well.
Find this great recipe here: http://www.breadtopia.com/sourdough-starter-bread-recipes.
Hi Anna,
If your dutch oven is already seasoned, then you don’t need to do anything else. Amazingly, the bread just doesn’t stick. If a slight film of oil remained on your dutch oven after the last use, you may find it smokes a little during the preheating stage, so you might want to crack open a window just in case. And have fun with the NKB–it’s downright addictive!
Thanks for the information and suggestions but I only use King Art unbleached white bread flour and I am still not getting large holes. The dough is very wet with good hydration. I do get one or two but not enough for me. Am I proofing to long? (18 to 20 hrs.) I do have a bit of trouble getting it out of the basket into the hot pot it sticks a little. Could the stretching that occurs as it comes out of the basket cause it to not have big holes because it is being disturbed to much? The crust is fine and the taste is good it is just missing the big holes. I don’t want to give up on this and am hoping someone can shed some light on my problem. Thanks, Joanne
Hi Joanne:
Maybe others have some ideas, but for the time being here are some more of my ramblings…
King Arthur makes a flour specifically labeled as "Bread Flour". Last time I saw it, the 5 lb bag had blue coloring at the top and bottom. Maybe it’s not carried so widely in stores, but any brand labeled as "Bread" flour should have a higher gluten content which might make your large hole quest a little easier to achieve.
I could easily be overlooking something more obvious, but besides the high hydration, I think it may really help if you can manage to move the dough around with minimal disturbance. The holes are carbon dioxide gas bubbles, a product of fermentation. The term "degassing" comes from punching down your dough but would occur to some extent anytime you disturb your dough. In many recipes, degassing is called for as a necessary step in the baking process. In this case, you may want to minimise the disturbance to minimize degassing. Try the technique described in the article "Great No-Knead Baking Techniques" where you allow the dough to do its final proof in a parchment paper lined basket and then just lift the paper out with the dough still in it and gently lower it into the Dutch oven, parchment paper and all.
Do try shortening your proofing time. Not only the long (18 hour) part, but the final proof too. There’s an optimal time to let dough proof that varies all the time depending on temperature and other factors. After that (sometimes elusive) optimal period, dough will start to deflate under its own weight. For the sake of experiment, try 16 hours on the long proof and only an hour to an hour and a half on the final proof. In your earlier post you mentioned a 3 hour final proof. That’s too long. You can always increase the time again later to maximize the flavor development.
I hope this helps. You are absolutely REQUIRED to report back here with your progress… or lack thereof.
Eric
Hi Eric.
Here’s a couple variations on variations we’ve been enjoying.
Tutti Fruiti
To regular no-knead dough add the finely grated peel of 1 orange, 2 tsps. unrefined sugar, and up to 1 and 1/3 cups dried fruit. (We used whole cherries, chopped pineapple, minced candied ginger, and golden raisins.) The dough can be on the wet side as the fruit will absorb moisture. Rise and bake as usual. (Beware, the sugary fruits will caramelize if they touch the pot directly, so use a pot that cleans up easily and try to form the dough so that not too much fruit is exposed.) Makes a sort of light-hearted cousin to a stollen.
Whole Grain Spelt
Make the dough using 3 1/2 c. whole spelt flour, 1 3/4 tsp. salt, 1/3 c. starter and water to 1 2/3 c. Stir in more flour if you can–the dough seems to gain quite a bit of moisture as it rises. Monitor the volume of the dough rather than watching the clock. I found I had to cut my rising times quite a bit. For the final rising put it in a greased bowl that has been well dusted with rice flour. (If you leave it on a flat surface it will just ooze as it rises.) Use a bowl that has a diameter slightly smaller than the pot you’ll be baking in. It won’t rise as much as a loaf made with refined flour, but should increase by 2/3. Dust the top of the dough with rice flour immediately before baking so that when you (carefully) flip it out into the pot you’ll have some there to prevent sticking. Bake as usual. Makes a flattish loaf–not as fluffy as those with some refined flour, but good texture with smallish air holes throughout and great taste.
If anyone comes up with a way to increase the fluffiness of whole grain NKB I’d love to hear about it!
I’m so thankful I found your site, I’ve learned so much! I have a couple questions if you have time. My kitchen is 80 degrees. Should I proof for a shorter time? If so how long or what should I look for? Often my dough seems overproofed and reeks of alcohol. When it does that can it be salvaged or should I just throw it out and start over?
Often it rises high but sinks as it bakes. What causes that?
This one I hate to ask but – I’ve made the original no-knead bread a couple of times in a hot pot and had the crust come out very tough, thick, and hard (think turtle shell)can I bake these in a traditional loaf pan or is the hot pot an essential element?
Thank you very much, I’m planning to try these three recipes in the next day or two. I have high hopes!
Hello happydog!
Yes, try proofing for a shorter time. I don’t know how much shorter, just try something and see how it goes, then take notes and try again. The sinking while baking sounds like over proofing as do the other symptoms. It would sink when the yeast has consumed its available nutrients and starts to die off before you’re ready to bake. The trick, which comes with practice, is catching the right time to stick in oven based on just watching how quickly the dough rises and the volume it rises.
Are you using commercial yeast or sourdough? The biggest single mistake people make is not feeding their starter often enough or freshening it up prior to baking. A good healthy starter is really important in order to get good results.
I think it is important to use a closed heavy pot like a Dutch oven or clay baker for the no knead method. Covered clay bakers are great and less likely to create turtle shell crust.
What a wonderful site.
The breads and tips posted on this site is really impressive, especially all the no knead recipes. However I just need a little help in perfecting this wonderful bread. I have tried many and all sorts of flavours and they all come out wonderful..(Beautiful crust, great flavour, awesome colors and lovely even holes through out.) The problem i have even with all these great results is that it seems a little wet, heavy, or some would say doughy. I have tried longer times with cover on and have also tried longer times with cover off. Ive tried cutting the ends to let steam out, longer cooling down periods in and out of oven, ive tried whole wheat, semolina, plain you name it ive tried it and its such a shame because everything else about the bread is AWESOME.
PLEASE HELP BEFORE THE LOCAL GROCERY STORE STOPS ME FROM TAKING ALL THEIR FLOUR
MRO
GOLD COAST AUSTRALIA….
Well… if you hadn’t explained all your attempts to solve your problem, I would have simply suggested that the bread needed longer cooking. Every body’s ovens have somewhat different baking characteristics. I actually think it’s still possible that longer baking may still be the answer. If you haven’t done this yet, maybe try baking quite a bit longer and possibly baking quite a bit longer at a lower temperature so the inside crumb has longer to bake before the crust burns.
A problem like this can sometimes be more easily solved with an instant read (probe type) thermometer. Wet dough breads should reach about 205 degrees Fahrenheit (~96 C)internal temperature.
The only other thing I might suggest is cut back a little on the amount of water you are using in the recipe and see what happens.
Another idea is try an altogether different type of bread recipe just to have the experience of getting the results you want. Of course there are a million recipes that can be found on the net.
I think if you hang in there long enough, and your grocer doesn’t ban you from shopping there, you’ll hit on the right combination of factors sooner than later. Maybe bread just bakes differently in the southern hemisphere
.
Thanks so much for the speedy reply….i have increased the baking time by ten minutes already and still with no succeess but maybe it just needs a little longer here at down under…i will try to increase the time and cut back on water..i will give you somew feed back asap…thanks and well done with the site.
MrO
Hi Mr.O:
I had that problem with my first loaf. I found that baking the bread to an internal temperature of 210 degrees solved my problem. Everyone’s water, flour, oven, etc. is different, but it may be worth trying for you. Carol
Thanks carol,
I think just getting a thermometer will solve the problems without having to experiment with water and temperature etc. Thanks again for the tip, I’ll post some feedback.
MrO
Hi Guys,
Just got the tools and have just started initial proof of the parmesan olive bread but i have a question in regards to the extended baking time. Considering that i am only trying to get a dryer or hotter center (205 – 210 f), should i extend both parts of the baking meaning top on and top off or should i only extend 1 part of the baking.
I would extend part 1, then if at the end of a “normal” part 2 your bread doesn’t pass the temperature test, put it back in for an extended part 2 for a few minutes.
I sure hope this works for you. You’re brave to attempt the parmesan olive bread while still in test mode.
Looking forward to hearing of your progress (although I suppose this reply may be too late to have been of much use).
Eric
Does anybody have the Jeffery Steingarten no knead bread recipe from Vogue magazine? I accidentaly threw my copy away!
Hi Laurie.
This is it:
3 cups bread flour
2 tsp. fine salt
1 tsp. instant yeast
1 1/2 cups water, at room temperature
Coarse wheat bran (for preventing sticking to towel during rise)
Bake in covered pot at 500 or higher for 30 minutes and then uncovered for another 20 to 30. Cool until barely warm.
Good (and funny) article. Many detailed and helpful tips too. One in particular that addresses problems with the bottoms of loaves burning – place the baking pot on the highest rack possible and/or his solution is to insulate the bottom of the pot with silicone disks that are sold as hot pads.
Hi Eric, the steel cut oats version is fantastic! I think I could have added slightly more salt as I’m using kosher salt, but otherwise the flavor and crunch are wonderful. I used yeast but will try it with my starter next time. I am getting MUCH better about being patient and letting the dough proof, and I did buy an instant read thermometer which read 205* – no more gummy crumb. Thanks again, Ann
Thank you, thank you!!!!
Questions regarding the “Seeded Sour”;
I would like to make this bread with some different seeds like flax. Can flax be used as is or should it be cracked/boiled/soaked first???
The other question, what is the purpose of the yogurt in this recipe?
Thank you much, and thanks for a great, informative site. A great help.
Hello drtisbeter,
My only familiarity with the use of flax seed comes from Jeffrey Hamelman’s "Bread" book where a few of his recipes call for using flax seed in a cold water soaker before baking. The seed soaks for several hours before mixing into the dough. This makes the seed more palatable plus the seeds don’t rob moisture from the dough when mixed in.
I’m not sure why the yogurt as opposed to just milk for example. Maybe yogurt, like buttermilk, has some small leavening component. Or maybe it adds a bit to the "sour" thing.
Have you baked it yet? I love this bread!
Thanks, I just made and ate your seeded sour with a little different seed mixture; amaranth, millet, poppy and sesame The same for the topping but with the addition of flax seed.
I forgot (not intentional) to put the yogurt in.
It is deffenitly the best bread I’ve ever made, it was delisious and didn’t last very long.
Will be making this again for sure with some variations –>add yogurt maybe
One question though; at my local health food stare (40min drive)they sell some whole barley, buckwheat and spelt, could one add these to the dough? What I’m really looking for is cracked wheat (commonly use for bread making in my native Holland)
thanks again
Sure. The more you experiment, the more you’ll find how far you can go with different grains before you end up with something significantly different tasting and textured bread. But you might like what you come up with better.
To me, half the fun of bread baking is experimenting and seeing what you come up with.
Regular wheat flour is the grain naturally highest in gluten, which is nice for bread baking, but of course people bake with everything and I understand bread in Europe is usually far different (and healthier) than what is common here.
Just finished the steel cut oats version, with sunflower seed in the dough and as topping => truly delicious
What size cast iron dutch oven is best for a single loaf?
Many like 4 qt. size.
Is there any way to make dinner rolls from the no knead bread method?Thank you.
There is. Here’s a link to a recipe that I plan to try some fine day.
Dec 6 2007 Update: Link no longer functional, so I removed it. Eric
I forwarded my no-knead “recipe” but apparently I didn’t send it in the proper manner to be posted. I use quotes around the word “recipe” because I don’t have definite quantities to recommed. Just experiment and adjust for your taste.
Actually, now I have two “recipes”:
1: Try adding some grated cheddar cheese (or cheese of your preference) and a couple thinly sliced jalepeno peppers. If you like it a bit hotter, try three or maybe even four.
2: Grated cheddar cheese and fresh rosemary added to the basic no-knead recipe is also very delicious.
I haven’t tried it yet but I think a little grated cheese spinkled on top of the loaf prior to baking would be very good.
Hey Brian, those sound like awesome variations. Thanks.
In my earlier post I forgot to mention that I added thin slices of red pepper about an inch long(not hot)to the bread with the jalepeno peppers. There’s no noticeable taste difference but the bread looks nice. I would have preferred to simply use fully red-ripe jalepenos but I had only one small one in the garden.
Firstly, I want to thank you for sharing your knowledge and being so generous and forthcoming with such valuable information. Such an easy website to remember,I have passed you on to friends.
I have been making Focaccia bread with my water sprayer on a stone for years with many compliments. I tried the no-knead plain bread as an experiment, not thinking if would actually work. I brought the loaf to the Sabbath (Friday night) meal to break bread, making all sorts of apologies that it propably wouldn’t be good. It blew everyone away. We all could not stop raving about the bread. For that, I thank you. The crumb was fabulous as well as the taste. We were sorry that there was only one loaf. Can I double the recipe in the same pot? Will it bake through or will the dough remain wet and doughy (yuck)?
By the way…I forgot to use purified water and used tap.
Hi Hedy. It’s my pleasure. Thank you for sharing your story – I love it.
I’m not sure what you’d find with doubling the recipe in the same pot. My guess is it would change a lot of things, perhaps significantly. You would probably have to lower the temperature and bake a little longer to prevent the crust from burning before the inside finished baking. Then you might loose some of the oven spring and crusty crust which are hallmarks of no knead bread. Or, I could be completely wrong
.
I haven’t checked to see if two 4 or 5 quart Dutch ovens would fit in a standard 30″ oven at the same time. When I need 2 loaves in one bake, I use a round and oblong La Cloche simultaneously.
Hopefully, others have ideas that address your question.
Eric, thanks so much for your great website!!!
Bought a cast iron dutch oven…2 quart size and it is perfect for one loaf. The lids that usually comes on these dutch ovens are flat, so picked up a glass round top lid. Kamart or your local Goodwill type stores. Found my dutch oven at local consignment store, ($12.00) it had never been used. No problem with sticking. The last time I baked bread, made two recipes. Made one recipe and 1 1/2 hours later started the other one. Worked out great as I only have one dutch oven so when the first loaf was finished baking the second loaf was ready to put in the oven. Saves on natural gas too as only needed to heat oven once.
450 degrees for 30min and 425 for 15 min. Great bread! I have been baking sourdough for several years and your no-knead sourdough is one of the best!
Hi Herb,
Thanks for the good info and tips. People are frequently asking what a good size is for a Dutch oven.
Made a no-knead bread again…with great success. I added about 2 cups of WW flour. I make my no-knead focaccio on a pizza stone…and spray with water every 5 minutes at least 3 times. I put garlic and chopped parsley with olive oil on top. It is devine. This has been my signature bread for years. Now I want success with sourdough baking and whole grains.
Would you mind ….
Just a couple of quick questions that maybe you can only answer.1) Do you use a refreshened sour dough starter immediatley after adding a feeding? or do you let it sit around for a few days or hours.
2) I am reading the Reinhart book on whole grain baking…it is a lot of info…like a science class…What is the difference between a biga, soaker and mash…as opposed to a starter? What is a mother. He is too scientific for me to remember.
When you have time to answer…no rush. Thanx
Hedy
Hedy, As for the sourdough don’t get too involved. Would advice KISS. If for some reason I do not have an active sourdough going, do this:
Pinch of Active dry yeast ( 1/8 tsp), stir into 1/4 cup of water, let desolve add 1/4 cup of flour, + or – to make about the thickness of pancake batter. Let set out at room temp.
Add flour and water every day for several days, 3, 5, 7, ever how many you want. Then make bread, then add flour and water to sourdough starter and put in frig. If I forget to take the starter out the night before, just mix with warm water that you have measured out for the bread. Feed once a week or so. I use whole wheat flour to make starter, just feel there are probably more good things in ww to help the starter. Most important thing for good bread is good fresh flour. Try to find a mill and buy from them.
For anyone looking for an appropriate pot, I have used a round 4 quart crock pot with great success. Since their lids are not oven proof, you can simply use a cookie sheet or foil for the covered portion of the baking.
For a larger loaf, I have used 1.5 times the ingredients in a 6 quart oval crock pot insert. Again, the results were great.
I am a new convert to this type of bread making. Can any bread recipe be a no-knead recipe? I have an old favorite that had warm milk and melted butter and an egg in it. Sounds like I might kill all my dinner guests if I did it the no-knead way. What do you think?
thanks, Laura
Hi Laura,
Not every bread recipe is suited to no knead, but you can certainly give yours a try, probably best tested on yourself first
.
Okay. I’ll be the guinea pig and let you know. I made the cranberry/pecan for thanksgiving and it was a huge hit. Then I made a white bread with 1 T. fennel seeds and some olive oil (I don’t know how much because I didn’t have much left) and that was delicious. So much fun!
thanks, Laura
Just thought I would let you know what happened to my last no-knead experience. I put a whole wheat sour dough starter and part WW and King Arthur White Flour recipe together on Wednesday morning before I left for work (7:00 a.m.)…All is going a long great. By Thursday evening I had a great sour-smelling, puffed up no-knead dough. This whole time I have not refrigerated the dough. On Friday afternoon when I wanted to make my bread…I noticed no sour smell. In fact no smell at all. I found that quite strange. I tried to pick up my dough to form in a floured cloth and the whole dough just disintegrated in my hand. There was no elasticity at all.It was sticky and grainyish. Really weird consistency. I tried to bake a small amount just to see if if would bake at all in a normal hot oven. It baked flat. I tasted it. It tasted sour, not in a good way…but like it was spoiled.
Conclusion: I guess…less is best, less time that is, instead of trying to make the sour time longer, I overdid it. I think one can not do more than 18 hours…or do you have to refrigerate the dough and for up to how long can dough ferment and not fall apart? What do you say? Would love your feed back. I thought I should share this outcome, in case someone else thinks they can over-sour a dough too.
Thanks again for all your help.
Hedy
If it sits out too long the acids in the sourdough break down the gluten. Plus the sourdough simple exhausts its food supply. I think that’s what happened in your case. If you want to extend beyond 18 hrs, you can refrigerate after mixing and take it out some time before baking to finish proofing. If you’re going to deviate from the recipe a lot, just experiment with the refrigeration thing and you’ll come up with something that works.
Hello Eric,
I made my first loaf of no knead bread with whole wheat flour added. I tried the standard recipe & had great success. For the whole wheat variation I used 1 cup of whole wheat flour with 2 cups of white & followed the directions. My loaf came out fairly flat this time. Is that normal for whole wheat? The only thing I did wrong was let it rise for 22 hours instead of 18 (fell asleep!). Would that have made the difference? I also sprinkled both the top & bottom with a fair amount of cornmeal to prevent it from sticking to the towel during the 2nd rise.
In any event, it tasted fantastic regardless of it being a flat loaf of bread (looked like biscotti when cut) so no harm no foul.
Thanks for your wonderful website & all the videos. It’s truly helpful to us amateurs out there.
Regards,
Shelly
Snohomish, WA
Hi Shelly,
Sounds like an extra 4 hours of sleep is a nice trade off for a flat loaf that still tastes good
.
The 1 cup of whole wheat will usually keep you from getting quite as nice a rise as from all white flour, but it wouldn’t usually make as big a difference as you saw. It probably was the additional proofing time. The starter consumed too much of the available nutrients and so there wasn’t so much left to give it that “oven spring” boost when you put it in the oven.
Sometimes you can get by with extra time if the room is real cold but I usually don’t even wait the whole 18 hours. For me 17 works about the same. After a bit, you’ll get a good feel for what works best in your kitchen.
Glad you’re having fun with this!
Eric
Thank you Eric. You should have your own tv show. I can’t believe the Food Network hasn’t snatched you up yet.
Shelly
Trying out my own variation on the parm-olive bread, it’s proofing as we speak. I’ve varied in that I used Mizithra cheese in place of the parmesan and chopped up my kalamatas because I like that cheese and for the sake of getting at least a little olive in every bite.
A thought on the question above about why yogurt rather than milk in the seeded sourdough recipe: Maybe because of the long proofing time at above refrigerated temps, since yogurt is already “soured” it seems it would be less likely to spoil as plain milk would be likely to (Isn’t the lactobacillus in yogurt and sourdough alike said to help keep other, unwanted bacteria controlled?).
I love cinnamon raisin bread for breakfast, so I decided to tinker with one of the no-knead recipes to see what I could come up with. Here’s what I did:
10 oz. bread flour
3 oz. white whole wheat flour
3 oz. steel cut oats
1 1/2 t. salt
1 t. cinnamon
12 oz. water
1/3 cup starter
1/2 cup raisins
1/2 cup chopped walnuts
This is basically a combination of the steel cut oats recipe and the cranberry pecan recipe. I just changed out the fruit and nuts, added some cinnamon, and increased the starter a little bit.
It turned out beautifully. I got a wide open, irregular crumb, nice crunchy crust, and huge oven spring. It tastes heavenly. I don’t think there will be any left over for breakfast!
Take Care,
Kendra
Thanks much, Kendra. Your recipe sounds wonderful. I’ve printed it out to try this weekend. I was just thinking of making cinnamon raisin buns, but this looks better. Great timing!
Eric
I’m thinking of trying this recipe again, but adding some butter and honey so that the crumb is softer. It would also be nice if it lasted a day or two longer before going stale. If I do that, I need to lower the temperature, right? Any recommendation on time and temperature to use?
That sounds like a good idea. I’d probably try around 450 with the lid on instead of 500 to start with and bake an extra 5 minutes before checking with a thermometer. That’s just a rough guess of course.
I did make the bread today and it is very good. I couldn’t resist sprinkling a cinnamon/sugar mix over the dough before that final fold to give it a swirl of sweetness. Otherwise, I followed the recipe exactly. Turns out I don’t think I added enough extra to make much of a difference.
I’m looking forward to hearing how it goes with some milk and lower temp. I’m probably thinking the same as you – maybe cinnamon raisin bread is better a little on the softer side.
It’s winter here and cold, outside and in. I prefer to wear more clothes than run heated air, so how do I keep my dough warm enough during the resting/rising periods? My house is usually around 60 degrees.
Hi Laura,
You could still let in rise at 60 degrees and just give it more time. Some people (like me) might even prefer this as, generally speaking, the longer the rising period the better the flavor.
But if that doesn’t work for you or time is an issue, many people let their dough rest/rise in their ovens with just the oven light bulb on. The light bulb generates a decent amount of heat. You can experiment with that. If the oven seems to be getting too warm, allow a tiny opening in the door.
How do I adjust the no knead recipe for high altitude? I am at 7200 feet, by the way.
Thanks for your help!!
I have found that it makes a huge difference as to what kind of flour you use. White all purpose makes many large holes compared to wheat flour that produces fewer. Also I have tried several brands of white flour and they all produce different results. Try useing different flours til you get the result you want. Hope this helps
The basic no-knead recipe says, “…2 cups (10 1/2 oz.) white bread flour…” while the steel cut oats recipe says, “…2 1/4 cups (10 oz.) bread flour”. I realize it is possible to measure flour so that 2 1/4 cups weighs less than 2 cups, but why do you want to?
Sometimes I like to add a little more flour because I find it gives me a better rise in the bread without taking away much from the open crumb.
Hello,
I have a question on the baking temperature…when I make my NKB, I follow Lahey’s recipe (from the NYT article), which calls for pre-heating the container in the oven at 450F, baking at 450F for 30 minutes, then removing the lid and baking for another ~15mins at the same 450F, and my bread turns out great (at least I think so
!)
The recipes here call for 500 F, then lowering the temp to 450 when removing the lid (the recipe in Feb08’s edition of Cook’s Illustrated also calls for these temperatures)…what is the difference? Should I change my technique? What would I gain?
Thanks!
R
Hi Roberto.
You might get a thicker and crispier crust at the higher temperatures. Maybe try it both ways and see which way you prefer.
I have just made my first bread in the La Cloche. I just got my Cloches and starter this week. I used the yeast method for the Cranberry Pecan, which was because I had not activated my starter the night before and was still building it up. So, it looked great until i started cooking it. Completely burned on the bottom. Was I supposed to season the La Cloche first? Or is my oven just entirely too hot. I followed the recipe exactly (not really like me, but since it was the first time, i thought i had better be safe rather than sorry!). The only thing that was different was that I let it rise only about 16 hours. It looked completely ready and I was afraid the yeast was going to start breaking down as i had read in other posts. Honestly, I could smell that it was burning, but thought (hoped) it was just the cranberries. I have mixed up basic sourdough bread to bake tomorrow morning. Pleae let me know if there are adjustments you think i need to make…
thank you so much for everything. WHen i found this site i was actually looking for a recipe for my favorite cranberry pecan bread from Bread & Co. in Nashville, and all i was finding was quick breads. We have moved to a small, rural area and have no artisan type breads near us anymore. I used to bake a sourdough bread that was in basic loaves (used potato flakes in the starter) and was more of a sweet sourdough with a very light texture. I lost my starter in the move! oh, well!
Hi Molly,
I’m starting to think maybe there’s something about the cranberry pecan bread that’s more prone to burning on the bottom as it seems I’ve heard this more than once before. But I know it’s not necessary that it happens since it doesn’t happen to mine and most others. Sooo, one thing you can try is see if you can move the oven rack up a level or two. I’ve heard that helps. Otherwise, maybe your oven does run a little hot and you just have to lower the temp some. It can really help testing the bread with an instant read thermometer so you know you’re taking it out at the right time and not leaving in any longer than necessary. Once the inside hits 200-205, it’s done.
You’ll get it, it’s just going to take a little playing around. This bread recipe is totally worth the experimenting with your oven until you have it down.
I made the cranberry-pecan bread in my new dutch oven yesterday, and even with three grandchildren around, it turned out fantastic. The crust did get a little too brown, and I will raise my racks as high as they can go and still fit, next time. It was my first no-knead experiment, and I was really impressed with the rise, the crumb and the flavour. I may have to throw out my almost new package of instant yeast. Thank you for another amazing recipe.
Eric, It’s been a while since I’ve visited the site, but I’m back into this again! I wondered what you would suggest using instead of amaranth in the Seeded Sour Bread. I can’t find it here.
Hi Eric can you tell me would i be able to retard the pecan and cranberry and the steel cut oat bread in my fridge say eight hours or so after shaping my time table is all over the place so i might not be able to bake when my bread is ready and i would possibly have to wait a while maybe 8 or a bit longer Robina
Absolutely. Using the fridge to slow things up to adapt the baking schedule to yours is a great technique. Just know that it doesn’t stop the rising process, it just slows it a lot. So when you take it out of the fridge, it may not take quite as long as usual to be ready to bake.
Beth – sorry, somehow I missed your question. I wonder how noticeable the amaranth is in the recipe. So I think if you just substitute one or more of the other grains, like the quinoa and/or millet, you’ll be fine. I would probably use a Tbs. of each in place of the amaranth. For the topping, just leave it out. It won’t matter.
Joanne Polayes emailed this variation of the cranberry pecan recipe. Sounds great.
She bakes it in her oblong la cloche.
Hi there. I have been messing around with making no knead bread using 2/3 whole wheat and 1/3 white flour. It tastes great and has a great crust, but no matter how much I grease (crisco) my Creuset pot, the bread sticks to the sides and bottom especially. It also stuck when I dusted the pot with flour. I tried tapping the bottom, using a cake blade to get it to release, to no avail. I have to cut into the loaf and yank it pretty hard before it will release. Then it gets gummy cause I cut into it; vicious cycle.
Anybody know why this is happening? I’d love to not almost die every time I bake this bread; that hot heavy pot is quite dangerous!
Thanks,
Heather
I would keep following your recipe but, transfer the dough to either parchment paper or foil and let it rise in a bowl, then when your ready to bake lift dough out of bowl and place in your creuset pot and bake. When it’s finished lift out of pot. Don’t know if this helps but that’s what I would do.
Heather
Jim’s post is right on! I bought some “No-Stick” foil, which really works good. Using this method you lift the foil and dough from the bowl it has risen in, place into baking creuset or dutch oven and remove without danger of burning yourself. Just cut the foil long enough to provide some to get a hold of.
Heather, I had the same problem. I had the dough not rising but spreading on the second rise, so I finally gave up and put it in a bread pan, let it rise there and baked it. I just took it out and it would NOT come out of the non-stick Caphalon bread pan! I had to pull and it broke in half, half of it still in the pan. Now, when I use 100% whole wheat or combo of whole wheat and other good grains (no white flour) I never had the problem of it sticking or of it not rising. I’m going back to that and not using any white at all. Try it. It should come off like nothing.
Thanks everyone. I will try the foil and no white flour method.
Do you have to grease the clay pots? I have a glazed clay baker (Braten Topf). Thank you.
Hi
Eric, THANKS SO MUCH FOR ALL YOUR HARD WORK!!!
Just got an Sassafras Oblong Baker as a gift and am wondering about a couple of things.
1. should I pre-soak it before putting in the oven for the first time, or any time
and
2. there are differing opinions as to whether to pre-heat the baker IN the oven or use it cold in the pre-heated oven.
I have used cast iron pots and home made la cloche tops and I did pre heat them in the oven.
I found that using 1-2 tsp of vital gluten and 1 tsp of lecithin does help the dough rise nicely.
My crusts are crunchy and both my husband and I love the crust and the chewiness of the bread.
I maintain the crisp crust by putting it in a paper bag[after it has completely cooled]. If you like chewy and a softer crust, then use a zip-lock bag.
Either way, it doesn’t last long.
I love this site and all the user comments.
I have baked only about 5-6 loaves of NKB, but, its the only way to bake. So many varieties, so little time..
thanks to all contributors.
jo-ann
Hi Jo-Ann,
You’re welcome!
I wouldn’t pre-soak the cloche. I don’t think it adds anything significant (like more steam). It’s more likely to increase the chances of cracking if it’s not thoroughly dried before using again.
If I’m understanding your second question, NEVER put a cold (room temp) cloche in an already preheated oven. Way too high a chance of cracking from the thermal shock.
Bring it up to temp with the oven. You can have the dough in to start will or place the dough in the cloche after it’s fully preheated (my preference).
Hi!
When I used to live in Germany I ate a lot of potato bread. Does anybody have any idea how either the NKB or ANKB recipe could be adapted for this? Instant potatoes? Actually mash some boiled potatoes up and use the water from the potatoes in the bread? Those were my ideas, but I have no idea how much. Would you want to include some wheat flour? I was hoping someone would have some input before I start experimenting.
Thanks!
Scott
Hi Eric,
Thanks for the website and recipes. My sister in Germany sent me the nkb video, so I thought I’d give it a try. She still uses the starter I gave her about 7 years ago. Apart from being a bit gummy inside, it was great.
English ovens mostly only go to 220C, a few will go to 250C so I guess that was the cause. Subsequent batches have worked very well, I experimented with extra time, and slightly lower hydration.
So three scant cups water to six sort of heaped cups flour to produce a double quantity. This get cooked in an oval casserole – an unenamelled cast iron lidded pot I picked up in Germany.
I usually use the sourdough starter which I made from the instructions you sent me. This has ended my sourdough drought. For years, all my starters and attempts to breed one ended in failure, and was reduced to buying fresh yeast from German supermarkets, bringing it home and freezing it.
For all the people who haven’t tried sourdough bread, especially the nkb method should give it a try, once the starter is going, it is, if anything even easier.
thanks again
yours
nick
I know you’ve said that 205 is the right internal temp for eliminating the gummy crumb. Being at 5,000ft in altitude, would I make an adjustment for that? Water boils at approximately 204 here so would I subtract the 8 or so degrees and check internal for 197?
Thanks for a great site!
Hello Eric,
I love your videos. I was successful in making my own starter even though I bought yours. Today will be my first attempt at sourdough bread. I have chosen to use the Steel cut oats, the Cranberry Pecan and a variation on your Olive loaf. I decided to do a Sharp Cheddar and green onion loaf. There is a question I have on it. Mine seems very sticky and rather soft. It doesn’t seem like it is firming up very well. I will let you know later if it bakes up OK though. I had to use a lot of flour to keep it from sticking to my hands as I tried to form a ball and put it in my proofing basket. Many of the breads I have made here seem a little too wet. I don’t have a scale so I use the measuring cups. Any advise would be appreciated. Thanks again.
John Summers in MO
Hi Rick,
Sorry it took so long to respond. I’ve been gone for a few days.
I’m really ignorant about baking at altitude (a lot of other things too, but we’ll stop at this for now). What I’ve read is that generally speaking, higher altitudes may require baking at higher temperatures and shortening the baking time accordingly. BUT, there are no set rules for this, each recipe is different and you just have to monitor the progress of the baking and resign yourself to a trial and error method.
I’ve heard from other bread bakers living at high altitude who have followed the normal instructions for the no knead bread and had great results.
Even the 210 degree rule is not a strict one. Bread can be done anywhere from 195 to 210.
So probably the best suggestion I could think of making is follow the recipe as is the first time and see how it turns out. Then take a wild guess at an adjustment, if necessary, and try again.
Hi John,
As I mentioned to Rick above, I was away for a few days. How did your bread turn out?
The no knead dough is very sticky. I’m not sure how anyone could work with it by hand without it sticking like crazy. So I’m curious to know how yours baked up.
Thanks so much for you information, Eric. I did try it at the normal recipe and times but it came on a bit more gummy than I thought, hence the question about if I took it to the correct temp. In general, what does cause the inside to be gummy?
Oh, another question I had, Eric, was what adjustments, if any, are needed if one puts in other ingredients such as herbs, garlic, nuts, etc? Does it require more water to take up whatever the additional items might soak up?
Thanks again,
Rick in CO
Hi Eric,
Well, I think the bread could have formed up better if I had it on parchment paper to proof. The proofing basket I got from ya, had to have the liner washed because of how much the dough stuck to it. I had heavily floured it before I put the dough in but it still stuck to it. I too like Rick, am trying to figure out the rules but the book by Peter Reinhart, The Bread Bakers Apprentice, is incredible. I am goingo to work with some of the bread bakers math and see if I can’t get things to work out better. Another attempt this weekend. Oh, the bread is almost all gone. My family still ate it up even though it didn’t rise up the way I wanted it to. Oh, I have the starter I got from you going quite well and my own starter is really thriving. When I smell each, yours smells sour like I would expect a sourdough starter to smell like. When I smell mine, it smells more like alcoholish to me. It is a whole wheat starter and I have been feeding it KA bread flour. I will use a lot of it up this weekend and maybe get it switched over to the white variety by next week. I will let you know. On another note. Since I discovered your web site and have had success in my baking, I have decided to take it to the next level. I am studing Peter’s books to learn how to be a great baker and will be taking classes at KA. I plan on opening a bakery/Pizzaria in my town. I am going to specialize in wood fired pizza and breads. I have wanted to do this for a long time and think I can do it. I will keep ya’ll updated on how its going. For Rick, according to Peter Reinhart, You have to maintain a certain percentage of flour and moisture in bread for it to come out right. I think my onion and cheddar loaf was way to moist. I plan on cutting back the water some but don’t know how much yet. I am still reading his book. I am also getting a scale. No professional baker uses volume to measure their ingrediants. It is all by weight. That may also help you too. I know it is dry in CO, I lived there for 5 years. It does seem to impact cooking some. I will let you know what I find out as I read.
John In MO
John, a big congratulations to you on your plans to open up a bakery/pizzeria in your town! I wish you great success.
Thanks for your comments, John. You know what it’s like baking at alitude then! I’m experimenting too with the adjustments needed. Actually overall the results are wonderful with the NK method…I suppose I’m just looking to perfect it. What other ingredients have you all added with no adverse results? I know Eric has used olive, pecan, parmesan, oats, etc. I’d like to expand that to wheat berries, kamut, and more multi-grains for the NKB.
Good luck with your enterprise as it should be quite rewarding. I’d love to know what you end up doing in preparing the NKB with a large scale production such as if it works by doing one big batch and then cutting it into individual loaves.
Take good care.
Rick
Rick – I’m not really sure about any guidelines on adjusting for the addition of ingredients, other than general guesswork. Some are going to suck up moisture, some aren’t.
Even when I add steel cut oats to the no knead recipe, which of course takes up quite a bit of moisture, I don’t add extra water just because I like the way it turns out without any extra.
As for what causes gummy crumb, other than under baking, I’m not sure on that either. I remember hearing or reading something about that, but can’t recall what it was. Big help, huh?
Great website Eric.
We bought a little NKB recipe book over 30 years ago and have been making NKB on and off ever since. Had a couple of bread makers in that time, but gave the last one away, we prefer the NKB.
We use wholemeal spelt flour, and bake in the traditional open top rectangular bakers pans.
The bread we turn out is quite heavy, but that’s OK, my only complaint is that all of the crusts are just SO hard.
Any suggestions ?
Cheers
Hi Bob & Kay,
I don’t have any experience to speak of with using all spelt flour. But as far as the hard crust goes, I suppose you could try some of the things others have tried with NYT no knead recipe.
If you’re baking at a really high temperature (as is the case with NYT no knead), you could try lowering it.
If there’s room to raise your oven rack a notch higher, do that.
Do you use an instant read thermometer to test when your bread is ready? It may be finishing sooner than you think.
You can also try adding a Tbs of oil to the recipe. That will soften the crust a little. Some people brush the crust with a little melted butter after it’s come out of the oven.
The basic no knead recipe by nature tends to have a pretty thick (rustic) crust tending to the hard side.
You might love the new recipe (with video) I just added for the Cook’s Illustrated Almost No Knead bread. The crust is much thinner yet still crispy.
Hi Eric,
I have a question for you about the Parmesan-Olive loaf.
What type of Kalamata olives do you use? I noticed oil cured, in water, and even other types as well. Which work the best?
Howie Cohen
Utica, NY
ps. And yes.. for special occasions only. The parm was a small fortune.
What do you think would happen if we took any regular bread recipe and adapted it by using only 1/4 tsp of yeast and letting it rise for 18 hours. Has anybody tried any and can they post the recipes if they have?
BArb
Bob and Kay,
You can soften the bread crust by putting it in a ziplock bag while still hot the moisture will soften the crust quite a bit. Be careful not to make it too soft though! Hope it works out!
Toni
Hi Eric,
You may have missed the question the first time around so here it goes again.
Tell me about the Kalamata Olives that you use for your bread. I think the oil cured would work best. Any thoughts?
Also how do you store your bread after you bake it? (assuming there is some left to keep) Once I cut into it, if I place it in plastic, I am sure the crust will soften.
I also don’t want it to dry out.
Love the Pecan-Cran. I made it this weekend with along with a variation using walnuts, cinnamon and raisins.
Yum!
Howie Cohen
Utica, NY
April 7, 2008
I just received the No Knead Bread Recipe from a friend. We were dining at his home and he brought the bread to the table. Assuming it was bakery bought, I asked where I could purchase it. He told me he made it himself! I was stunned when I looked at the recipe. I have been making it nonstop for a week, alternating between whole wheat and white. I decided to look on the website to see if there were any variations and, “lo and behold” I stumbled onto this website. I can’t wait to try the many variations that all of you have submitted. Thanks
Hi Howie,
I’m not sure what to say about the kalamata olives. I live in a small town and have exactly one choice of those particalar olives. They’re pitted!
I usually just stick the bread in a plastic bad and deal with softened crust the next day. Lately, I’ve been experimenting with covering just the exposed crumb with foil and storing the bread in a bag made out of bamboo fabric. So far the results have been good. Bread stays fresh and crust crispier.
I’ve been making NoKnead bread for a couple of weeks and found that I’ve really “Drank the Kool-Aid”. I’m ready to try a few new things and first on my list is Asiago Cheese Bread.
Does anyone have any tips on how to tweak the basic NoKnead receipe to produce Asiago Bread?
Thanks.
Ken
I would just add some grated cheese when initially mixing up all the ingredients without changing anything else. It may take some trial and error to come up with just the right amount for you. I’d probably start with about a cup of loosely graded Asiago since it’s pretty strong.
This would probably make a great tasting bread. If you end up with something you like, please let us know what you did!
For what it’s worth, I’ve added about 6 oz. of grated, sharp cheddar to the basic recipe with great results.
Let me add a tip to my previous comment about using cheese in the recipe:
Since the cheese will tend to stick to what ever pot you bake it in, I throw some flour or corn meal into the pot right before adding the dough. Also, you might need to take knife or spatula around the perimeter of the finished loaf to free it from the sides to get it to pop out.
Hi Eric,
Could you explain what the yogurt does in the Seeded Sour?
I can’t imagine that it imparts any flavor. Perhaps the L. Acidophlus
does something. Any thoughts?
Howie
Hi Howie,
My guess wouldn’t be any better than yours. This recipe is just slightly adapted from one out of the La Brea Bakery book.
Well Eric.. you were right!
The Parm-Olive bread was a big hit tonight at a dinner party. The texture was amazing not to mention the aroma.
To all of those readers who are wondering if they should make one… YOU SHOULD!
Still waiting for an old fashion Jewish Rye recipe.
Have fun baking.
Howie, the neon guy!
Loving NKB baking! Read that some people save a bit of dough to use as a sort of starter, keeping it in the frige. I attempted this, then tried to melt/dissolve in the water prior to adding to the dough -however the little ball of dough would not break down. It was like elastic and really liked itself, I tried breaking it apart w/ my fingers & a fork and used warm water. I would end up with clumps some soft some like silly putty. Any suggestions? I would love to use this method. Does this ball need to be room temp before trying to integrate it?
Have you been trying this with wild yeast (sourdough starter) leavened bread dough or commercial yeast (like the dry yeast you buy in packets) leavened dough?
I used dry yeast leavened dough. Would that make much of a difference? Is yeast more adhesive than sourdough?
The reason I ask is because I’m pretty sure the method you’re referring to, which I think is called the “old dough method”, only works with sourdough leavened dough. Commercial yeast will die off after the first use, but wild yeast will perpetuate itself indefinitely, as long as you continue to feed it more flour and water.
As for the dough being clumpy and not wanting to break down, that’s another story and I don’t know how people deal with it using the old dough method. It may just be a matter of breaking it up into many small pieces and kneading like crazy into the new dough.
Hopefully someone else can shed some light on this.
I did use it anyway, and am chewing a wonderful piece of wheat/oat/sunflower seed bread! I didn’t knead it, not sure where the clumps are.
I guess it doesn’t die off after the first use then. Maybe the second use???
Hi, I just wanted to jump in and comment on the old dough (AKA pate fermente) method being discussed. It is usually done with commercial yeast as far as I’ve seen. Also, it is usually kneaded into the dough to which it is being added, rather than added to the water. Since we’re discussing No Knead bread here, I guess that isn’t quite an option. Something that comes to mind is adapting the method that Rose Levy Berenbaum uses for firm (doughlike) sourdough starter. She recommends tearing the starter into several pieces to add to the dough. This seems like a method that should work well here.
Here’s a couple of good articles on preferments including the old dough method:
http://cafemeetingplace.com/archives/food3_apr2004.htm
and
http://cafemeetingplace.com/archives/food4_dec2004.htm
Thanks for the info Russ (and Eric). I appreciate your time/knowledge. Some day when I’m not LOVING the NKB I may try this adventure w/ kneading.
Dear Eric:
Your ears must be ringing. Since I discovered breadtopia in Nov. 2007 I have turned your website unto several friends. They are in love with the KNB method. I am no longer “queen” of the home-made bread baking. But that’s okay…because you are so generous with your knowledge…I too want to be able to pass on what I know. When I love something, I can’t stop raving about it and/or the people who must get the credit.
Quickie 2 questions: When refreshing the sourdough starter, can you leave the starter out too long and destroy the potency of the starter? So far I do about 12 hours maximum when I refresh the starter, but I am wondering if I do it the night before and leave it out all night…is that too much?) What is the max time for leaving it out?
2nd question: After you put the KNB dough in the corn-mealed baskets, can you over rise it….and then there will be no oven-spring left. What is the maximum time to to that rise? (so far I don’t do more than 2 hours).
Thank you again for all your help.
Hedy
Good questions.
Yes, you can leave starter out too long. Of course there are all kinds of variables like strain of starter and room temperature, for example, but I generally don’t leave my starter out more than 6 hours after refreshing it. If it’s going to be much longer than that I just put it back in the fridge until I need it.
Starter will continue to feed and grow in the fridge, just at a much slower rate. Seems to me (rough guess here) that 12-18 hours in the fridge is about the same as 4-6 on the counter.
You can also over rise it. This is pretty easy to do. Again it’s hugely dependent on the room temp. In the summer, I rarely proof over an hour on the final rise. 1 1/2 when it’s cooler.
To max out the oven spring, I try to err on the early side with proofing. Better than being too late. It’s the same principle as the starter. It tends to “run its course” after a certain point.
After a few million loaves, you develop a sense for the timing on all this. I’ve only got a half million or so to go.
So I’m thinking about doing the parm-olive (sourdough) no-knead again and I had a thought: Do you think that grated Parmesan would work in the bannetton in place of the wheat bran? It sounds like a tasty alternative to me, but it would be a big waste if the bread stuck and got ruined.
Russ
It’s a great thought. I think it would work to keep the dough from sticking to the banneton. The problem I think would be the Parmesan cooking onto whatever baking surface you’re using and causing a huge smokey mess that’s very hard to clean up.
Hi,
I recently found this recipe (below) that uses lavender (or rosemary) and I’d like to duplicate it using the NK method. One option would be to simply add lavender to my dough. But… being such a novice I’m wondering about the buttermilk and olive oil — how do they change the character of the bread? And, second, can I use buttermilk and/or olive oil in my NK bread? If so can you tell me what the measurements should be (or a close approximation).
Thanks!
The Recipe:
3 1/4 teaspoons active dry yeast
1 cup lukewarm water (120F)
1 cup buttermilk
1/3 cup olive oil
1/4 cup fresh rosemary or fresh lavender blossoms, finely chopped
1 tablespoon salt
1 teaspoon salt
6 3/4 cups all-purpose flour (approximately)
Hi Carolyn,
It’s a tough call for me to tell how different ingredients might effect the outcome without just trying it. If I were to attempt this, I’d just add the ingredients to the basic no knead recipe and see what happens. You can definitely add oil and buttermilk in addition to the rosemary.
A conservative way to approach it is to add the ingredients in increments with each loaf baked so you can get an idea of the effect of each.
It would help if you’ve already baked the NK bread a number of times so you’re familiar with the consistency of the dough. That way, when you start adding new ingredients, like buttermilk, you’ll also know how to adjust the flour, if necessary, to keep the consistency where you want it.
I’ve found the NK method to be extremely flexible and forgiving so I wouldn’t be surprised if you ended up with something very nice. If you give this recipe a whirl, I’d love to hear how it goes for you.
I’ll definitely let you know how it goes. It may be a while before I try it; with summer weather and no air conditioning, I generally don’t want to fire the oven up until we get a few cool days.
I like your suggestion to add new ingredients in increments. I’ve been keeping a log, so I’m pretty sure I can duplicate the successes I’ve had on my last few loaves. And I’ll be able to keep track of each new trial.
Tomorrow I’m going to the Lavender Festival in Sequim, WA, and I’ve been harvesting the lavender in my yard so I’m all excited about trying new recipes.
Thanks for your help!
Hi, I live in Colorado Springs, it’s 6,000 altitude. I am not sure if that’s the reason why I cannot seem to get any holes in my bread. Do you have any suggestions. I am lucky my bread is not flat. And it seems that all my bread come out differently every time I bake them. please help me. Thanks.
Hi Irina,
Baking at altitude definitely has its challenges. There are several user comments scattered about on this site on the subject. Finding them is the hard part.
I’ve just added a search window to the top of the column to the right. If you enter “altitude” several references come up and you can click on the big blue letters of the page heading which will take you to the page where the comments are. Then you can scan the page for the highlighted search words. (At the bottom of the original search query are the words “Older Results”. Click there too for more search results.)
To save you some time, here are several links that will take you directly to some of these comments…
Baking at High Altitudes
Baking at High Altitudes
Baking at High Altitudes
Baking at High Altitudes
Baking at High Altitudes
Baking at High Altitudes
Hi,
Well the cool weather arrived so I tried making the lavender bread I mentioned earlier. Below is the recipe I actually used. I made a couple of small boo-boos, but nothing dramatic. For one thing I put the just-mixed dough into the fridge for 2 hours (oops).
Carolyn’s No Knead Sourdough Lavender Bread
12 oz (2½ C) bread flour
4 oz (½ C) White whole wheat flour
¼ Cup sourdough starter (very active)
1½ tsp coarse sea salt
½ Cup buttermilk substitute: ½ C non-fat milk + 1½ tsp white vinegar
1/6 Cup oil
1/8 Cup fresh culinary lavender (I grow my own, an English variety)
note: Use only 1/3 to 1/2 as much if using dried lavender
Enough filtered water to get to about 12 oz. of liquid total on the scale (but mostly until the dough looked wet. I don’t have an exact measurement, I was banking of the recipe being “forgiving”.)
After 18 hours I folded it, let it rest 15 min.. Shaped it, covered it, and left at room temp. for 2 hours. Then baked covered in my “frugal cloche” at 500 for 20 min., then uncovered at 450 for 10 min. until internal temperature measured 205.
To make sure the loaf didn’t stick to the cover I made a narrow collar of parchment, and it worked very well. The loaf was constrained by the diameter of the cover and was forced to rise into a nice spherical shape.
It all worked out well. The bread tastes wonderful. Although the fragrance of the lavender seemed rather strong while wet, the baking produced a lightly aromatic result with a very pleasant flavor — an interesting transformation. It’s a lighter flavor than rosemary.
As to the effects of using buttermilk and oil, I’m not certain. The texture is about the same. My husband thinks the crust is a bit softer. Other, more experienced bakers could probably provide a better comparison.
Thanks for the advise encouragement. I love this site!
Carolyn
Thanks so much, Carolyn. This sounds truly fantastic. I’m going to look for some lavender and give it a try.
I’ve added a link (near the top of this page) to your post so people can find it easier.
Hi there,
you mentioned “room temperature”, would like to know what is the actual temperature. I live in Malaysia. Thank you
Hi there,
Interested in purchasing the danish dough whisk. Malaysia is not in your mailing list . Is it posible to purchase it?
You just have to make adjustments for whatever your room temperature is. In Malaysia, the adjustment is going to be reducing the proofing times. When it’s warm and humid (or just warm), you can and should probably cut back on the long proof to about 12 hours and about 1 hour on the second proof. By “proof”, I also mean “rise”. There is no specific temperature everyone has to adhere to with these no knead recipes.
Alternatively, if you want to prolong the proofing times you can experiment with using your refrigerator to slow things down. Just requires some experimenting.
Malaysia has been added to the mailing list.
I made this today, and it’s fantastic!! I let it rise for 14 hrs. The first sour dough loaf I made (not this recipe), was too sour, so I shortened the time, and this one turned out perfect. I use my Pampered Chef Stone baker. If I want to make a regular loaf, I also use the PC stone bread pan, and cover it with another. I put parchment paper in a bowl to let it rise for about 2 hrs., and then just lift it into the preheated baker. I am really impressed with this easy way of baking bread.
What a great website!!!
I need to make smaller loaves — is there any reason these recipes can’t simply be halved? I’ve been experimenting — this week, I’ve made the plain , the cran-pecan, & the oat, all 1/2-recipe, all using part white whole wheat. All came out tasty but just a bit damp & gluey inside; I don’t know what variable to change. I’m using my great starter that a friend gave me 35 yrs ago (saying it had been passed down for c. 70 yrs, so I guess it’s now a true antique; it’s one of my most treasured possessions!). I tend to keep it liquid-y. When freshly fed, it causes a 4 or 5-hour rise, & I don’t know what to do about that either! Can I just keep punching the dough down till the 18-hour mark? Thanks for any suggestions . . .
No reason at all you can’t halve the recipe. Are you sure you’re letting them bake long enough to solve the damp, gluey inside? You might try adding a little more flour to the recipe to compensate for the more liquidy starter. Also, you could reduce the amount of starter you use in order to increase the time it takes to rise all the way. I wouldn’t punch down the dough though, it’s normal for no knead recipes to finish the rise long before the 18 hour mark.
You can also experiment with going 12-14 hours (or whatever) on the long rise. 18 hours isn’t a hard and fast rule.
I imagine that with a little more playing around with it, you’ll arrive at something that works for your unique set of circumstances.
Good luck!
Eric
Oddly, I did compensate on the third loaf and used less water, but got the exact same insides. Maybe I do need a longer baking time, maybe my oven temp is a little off. I’ll try that, thanks! And I will try less starter for a longer rise. What I don’t understand about the first (long) rise — if you aren’t watching, and it peaks and deflates, is that a problem? Will it still do a normal proofing after you shape the loaf?
Sherry, I have combined the cooking methods of NKB from Breadtopia and the recipe proofing from the book “Artisan Bread in 5-Minutes a Day” The book makes a large wet dough, proofs for 2hours then refrigerate up to 2 weeks using the amount you want for what you are cooking. It has several basic doughs that are used for the rest of the cookbook. Breadtopia’s cooking technique is so easy that I haven’t used the book’s technique. The flavor of the dough changes during the time that you leave in the refrigerator. The second time I made this I used the same container without washing it and the dough was a great sourdough…although my family is/are not a fan of sourdough.
Happy bread baking!
Teri
Hi Teri, I guess you’re saying that I can slow down the rise in the frig, and/or I can make the full recipe, store in frig & just bake half at a time — that would be more efficient than mixing up half recipes each time. I’ll give it a try, thanks. I discovered this weekend that at October temps, I can go with the c. 18-hour rise; it was August when I got a 4-hour rise.
Here’s a strange thing — I mixed half-recipes of the cran-pecan & the olive (minus the parmesan), at the same time, using same starter & what I thought was equivalent hydration. On the long rise, the olive dough rose to about triple the volume of the cran/pecan, which seemed to just sit there. The cran baked up ok, but flattish & not great, while the olive loaf is gorgeous with wonderful crumb. Huh?? Is there something about cranberries that inhibits the beasties? Or about olives (extra salt, maybe?) that stimulates them?
Sherry, from my understanding the crumb and rise have to do with the hydration, so whenever I add extras that are dehydrated or absorb liquid (like steel cut oats or dried cranberries) I add extra water for those ingredients to absorb. This seemed to make a difference in my loaves.
Happy baking! -yea for cooler weather!
Teri
Hey, Teri — I honestly did not give a thought to the dried cranberries, but your observation makes perfect sense — of course, they absorb moisture. I’ll pay more attention to the hydration as I experiment. Thanks for your help!
Sherry
I loved looking at the videos. I am fairly new to breadmaking and ready to buy my first banneton and am fascinated with the La Cloche (which I am unfamiliar with) as I have only used bread pans over the years. I have a convection oven. Should I reduce the temperature by 25 degrees to allot for the convection? I made bread today (the first time in years) and in called for a banneton, which I didn’t know what it was until I started searching and came across this site. I can’t wait to buy the sourdough starter and see how I do. I am great at baking and jam making, so I don’t know why I haven’t made too much bread. Maybe things will change with the no knead recipes.
Hi Joanne.
You might have to adjust the temp or time down a little to compensate for the convection. Personally, I haven’t found any need to do so, but at least one person I know of did find a small adjustment helped. It would probably be a bigger issue if the bread weren’t “hiding” inside a cloche or Dutch oven.
I was told when baking with convection, the sides of your dish should be no higher than 1 1/2 “. Having your bread covered does not let the air circulate around. I would not use convection when baking this bread.
Just baking my second no-knead loaf now. 1st loaf was fantastic – this one has grown into a monster – I have high hopes! Using an organic malted bread flour with added linseeds and sesame seed topping. Mmmmmmmm – can’t wait. The last no-knead tasted far better than any of my other breadmaking efforts. Some great variations on here too thanks!
i like to try NKB but i don’t have dutch oven, can i bake it in my slow cooker? also can i use active dry yeast for instant yeast?
Nice, Lou!
Delza – are you talking about putting the ceramic liner from your slow cooker in the oven? If so, that might work but make sure the lid can withstand the high oven heat.
Well my second loaf turned out great! Lovely and springy and malty.
Delza – I have been using a cheap lidded pyrex (glass) casserole dish which has worked well. Also, after seeing the oblong clay baker in the video and realising they are impossible to find in the UK, I just experimented with a white no-knead dough, turning it into a large normal loaf tin heated in the oven. I covered it with tin foil and removed it for the last 15 mins. It has just come out of the oven looking rather good I must say. I’d say just try it!
I have made 4 loaves of this absolutely delicious bread. I use my Pampered Chef Baker. I used the cold oven method for the last loaf, and it turned out wonderful. I prefer this way to the heated baker. I baked it at 475 for 45 min., took the cover off and baked another 10 min.
The first no-knead bread I made (and make quite often) was the No Knead Harvest bread from the King Arthur’s sight, and that recipe also starts with a cold oven.
Eric,
I baked a loaf of the Seeded Sour and it was just fantastic and got rave reviews at my mother-in-laws 75th B-Day party. Very few store bought loaves I have ever had were as good or better than the Seeded Sour. Thanks to you and Nancy Silverton.
I was also wondering, does anyone have any ideas for better forming of round loaves in the dutch oven? I have seen Joe Valencic’s comments for how to fill out an oblong La Cloche when baking oblong loaves, but was wondering if anyone as found a form like device or can recommend a correctly sized dutch oven for getting a taller rounder loaf.
Don’t get me wrong, the bread I’ve been turning out is perfect in taste, crumb, etc., it’s just that I don’t find that the ANK or NK doughs dumped from the second rise in to a typical dutch oven or round La Cloche will hold their shape. Ideally there would be a La Cloche that would be sort of a cross between the rounded bottom bread pan like Oblong La Cloche and the flat bottomed dutch oven like Round La Cloche?
Any ideas anyone?
Hi Jeff,
One fellow I know of, Ed Pillitteri, removes the bottom from a springform pan and uses just the ring placed on the base of the round la cloche to shore up the edges of the wet dough and force more of a rise. I suppose you could do the same inside a Dutch oven.
I have a 4 qt Dutch oven that seems about the right size to keep the dough from spreading out a lot.
My father-in-law suggested the spring form idea too. I also thought of putting a non-stick pan in the bottom of the dutch oven as it warms. But I think the best would be a dutch oven or oven safe pot that had a sort of rounded bottom with about an 8″ diameter. I’ll see if I can find a small spring form.
This NKB method is all new to me. Can you tell me what steel cut oats are and what is spelt? Thank you – I’m anxious to get started!
Eileen
Eileen,
Steel cut oats are just oats that have been cut rather than steamed and rolled. the way American oatmeal is normally processed. Spelt is an ancient wheat variety. You can buy the whole grains, or flour ground from spelt.
My latest no-knead sourdough is my favorite so far:
1 cup whole wheat starter
1 cup whole wheat flour
2 1/2 cups bread flour
1 Tbl kosher salt
1 1/4 cup water (approx)
I started by making a sponge with the starter and the cup of whole wheat flour, and about 1/2 cup of the water. I just mixed until I had a pancake-batter consistency, rather than measuring carefully. This was covered with plastic wrap and set aside for about 6 hours, until nice and bubbly and about doubled in volume. I then stirred it well to break up the bubbles, and took out a cup of the sponge to save as my starter for next time.
I then added the bread flour and salt, and mixed, adding about 3/4 cup of water to get the wet dough consistency I am used to for no-knead bread. I covered the bowl with plastic again, and let it ferment at roomtemperature for 13 hours.
At this point the dough had risen to the top of the bowl. I turned it out onto a floured board, and folded it as in the original recipe, then covered it with a towel and let it rest for 15 minutes. I lined a large bowl with Reynolds release foil, dusted it with sesame seeds, then formed the dough into a tight boule and placed it on the foil. I dusted the top with more sesame seeds, coveered the bowl with the towel, and let it rise for about 4 hours.
I slashed the top, and baked it in a preheated cast-iron Dutch oven, in a 450-degree oven for 30 minutes. I then removed the bread from the Dutch oven, took it off the foil, and finished browning it directly on the oven rack for 9 minutes.
We felt the whole wheat flavor was better developed in this loaf than when I used a white starter and whole-wheat flour. We put both butter and olive oil on the table, but no one used either. A friend eating with us said he really liked the subtle tang of the sourdough, which is what I was aiming for with a full cup of starter and just 13 hours of fermentation. I also find sourdough reduces the amount of salt I need, compared to baking with commercial yeast, but that may just be a personal preference.
Or, Jeff B., you could try the parchment paper trick….have you tried that? Go here to read about it if you haven’t already:
http://www.breadtopia.com/2008/09/16/its-bread-baking-season/
Hi
I have a questain about Carolyn’s No Knead Sourdough Lavender Bread
It says to use 1/6 cup of oil–what is 1/6 cup?
Are there measuring cups in the stores that have that measurement or what?
how do I measure it?
Thank you so much
Lynne
Hi Lynne,
The 1/6 cup came from cutting the original recipe in half. I just eyeball half of a 1/3 cup measure.
Carolyn
Hey Eric…I’m haunting you again….lol…
Your Steel Cut Oats recipe is one of my favourites!!!…although I’ve only tried 3 different recipes so far
It is healthy, tasty and easy to make!
I also use the parchment paper trick…..what an excellent idea!
I finished baking my latest no-knead Steel Cut Oats loaf yesterday at 10:30am. As I usually make 2 loaves at a time, I had also made the no-knead Rye bread(nice results too!). So, I put my Steel Cut Oats loaf away in a cloth bread bag and forgot about it until this evening at 9pm. I thought it would be all dried out. Well let me tell you, it was much easier to slice thin slices after over 24 hrs than it is on the same day that it is baked. I couldn’t beleive it!
As we are only 2 adults and 2 under 4 in our home, we don’t go through much bread. So, I like to make this loaf, slice it and then freeze the slices in a ziploc bag. I toast slices individually as we need them. One loaf usually lasts us about 1 week. This recipe is healthy, has great fiber content and a fantastic flavour…even for kids. I had been waiting for Eric’s “Best Whole Wheat Bread ” recipe for sometime now….hint…hint….but find that this recipe is even better and likely easier (because it is no-knead) than any other whole wheat recipe. Also, it is likley healthier with a higher fiber content due to the oatmeal.
As I was saying, with this Steel Cut Oats recipe, after freezing the slices, I usually toast slices for my kids’ breakfasts and snacks. However, my peeve was that the crust was a bit too thick and hard for their young teeth. Now by accident, I was able to find out that if you wait 24 hrs to slcie the bread, the bread is so much easier to slice thinly. Therefore, thinner slices make for less crust and an easier to chew bread for my picky 4 yr old! I am sooooo happy!
Thanks Eric, for these great recipes that help me feel great about baking healthy bread for my family without the pains of baking bread for my family.
Marilyn,
Toronto, Canada
That’s great, Marilyn. Glad it’s working out so well!
Have found greatest success with these wettish doughs by combining the following excellent suggestions from these posts: 1) a rise after shaping in a bowl lined with non-stick aluminum foil or parchment paper; 2) placing an open, bottomless springform pan into the bottom of my aluminum dutch oven for preheating; and 3) lifting dough on its aluminum foil or parchment sling into the preheated springform pan (which supports the wet dough during baking); 4) replace cover on dutch oven and bake as per given recipe– Many, many thanks to all the posters here who’ve provided these tweaks and suggestions
Liz
I have been baking all my breads in my Pampered Chef stoneware. I use the loaf pan and cover with a loaf pan. I’ve also used the deep dish baker with lid to make a round loaf. The No Knead Harvest bread (King Arthur’s website) was where I got started with this way of baking bread, and I love it.
That bread was put in the pan in a cold oven and baked at 450º for 45 min., take the cover off and bake for about 5 min. more. I have been doing this wiith all the no knead breads with great success. After the 1st rise, (anywhere from 8 to 12 hrs. for me.) put the dough in the pan you are going to bake it in and let it rise for about 2 hours. It eliminates the proofing bowl.
Hi Eric {or whoever has any experience with hard cereal grains} I am interested in incorporating BOB’S RED MILL 10 GRAIN CEREAL into my SDNK or NK yeasted bread. Which of the two would be the best method: 1) Cook it like a cereal as directed on the package or 2) Just soak it as a seed ball? If so to any of these methods how much should be used for the regular NKB? The grains are about a medium grind. Also I picked up a Romertopf clay baker for $2 at a garage sale that looks fairly new, so I should probably soak 20-30 mins. It is stamped with 111 on the bottom and holds 12cups of water. Is this too large a pot or can I do 1 1/2X the formulae? I’ve seen different posts on Breadtopia on the use of Romertopf unglazed bakers and they sound very successful-cold oven and hot oven tecnique. Just need a little more info on these bakers as mine didn’t come with a manual!! I sure would appreciate some input soon from an experienced baker as I have my SD starter building now. Thank you for your feedback, Susan
Hi Susan. As for soaking the grains, I thing you would find that simply mixing them into the no knead dough at the beginning would work well. I say this because that’s what the steel cut oats recipe calls for and there are few things harder (or that would take longer to cook) than steel cut oats. And yet the steel cut oat recipe calls for a 1/2 cup of them (quite a lot) and they soften up very well over the course of the recipe preparation.
Thank you Eric for your quick reply. I guess I had a momentary “bread bloop” of the brain. Your information makes perfect sense! I remember trying a recipe of this nature {Yeasted bread} with RED RIVER CEREAL and simply threw in the grains dry. They were a bit crunchy to the tooth yet still edible.
How do you calculate the addition of 1 cup starter into a receipe that normally contains 4cups of flower
Marc,
I like that question. My answer is, I don’t: I cheat. I figure my starter always needs to be fed before using, so I take it out of the fridge, dump it into a bowl, add 1 cup of flour and 3/4 cup of water, mix well, cover lightly , and let it work for several hours. When I think it’s ready to use, or I’m ready, I stir it down to break the bubbles, and then remove the quantity of starter I began with. That way, I know that the starter in the bowl contains 1 cup of flour and 3/4 cup of water, so those are the quantities I subtract from my recipe.
This way, I’m not trying to guess how much flour and how much water is in a cup of starter. The only starter I measure is what I’m putting back in the refrigerator. In my case, that’s always 1 cup, but I could just as easily use another quantity, as long as I’m consistent.
When I finally get a scale, I may do things differently.
Thanks Dave…I think I’m much more of a novice but have enjoyed my new hoby
Well this all sounds very complicated! I have been making 2-3 no-knead loaves a week over the last few weeks and every one has turned out great with little effort (just time!). I don’t use a starter (but believe the time fermenting adds flavour) although may try this sometime. I use either a pyrex casserole dish or normal loaf pans heated in the oven and covered in tin foil for a “normal” shaped loaf. Really works great – making white bread this way produces a lovely chewy ciabatta type loaf that is very popular in my house. I also tend to split the quantity and make 2 smaller loaves always – makes it easier to eat one / freeze one. Wholemeal bread is divine using this method – giving a lovely aerated texture I’ve never been able to achieve with kneaded varieties.
Good news!
I have a new technique for Boule loafs that I think all will enjoy. And in the spirit of NK bread, it is easy and solves many problems at once. Earlier in the comment threads, I was looking for a better way to get boule shaped rounded loafs. The flop in to the hot dutch oven always seemed like a mistake to me given the way that a real mass production bread line might be run with a conveyor belt in to a commercial oven, etc. (Did I mention I am an engineer and the part of bread-making I really love is of course, The Process and Repeatability.)
Anyway, here is the trick. I call it the NKNF (No Knead No Flop) method.
After you ferment your dough, then you turn it out on to the floured surface, flatten, tri-fold with bench knife, etc. Then get enough flour on your hands and the dough so you can handle it and shape it. Now, form it in to a nice ball by rotating and turning the sides under repeatedly until you have stretched the dough without breaking the surface. So you just did all that nice shaping. It’s a shame to lose that by turning it upside down in the proofing bowl. So I proof right side up! And not on parchment, because again, that doesn’t retain form, and it means buying and wasting more paper often.
My solution is an aluminum 8″ camping frying pan. I had one lying around as I like to backpack and camp. I removed the handle by putting one side of it in a vice and coaxing the other side out with pliers, and then moving the pan back and forth to get the first side out of the handle while the handle remains in the vice. The pan I use is this one: Open Country 8″ Fry Pan Only about $15. And it is non-stick teflon coated!!!! You might be able to find another 8″ pan at REI, etc. Some camp pans come with easily detachable handles for nesting the pans. Make sure you get a teflon coated one. One could also buy a regular cheap 8″ fry pan and simply cut the handle off with a hack saw, or drill out the rivets and remove the handle. 8″ is key as it is the perfect size for the recipe amounts listed here in this thread.
I sprinkle a little cornmeal in the bottom of the pan. No oil needed. Then, place the rounded loaf in the pan. After I place the nicely rounded loaf in the teflon coated pan, I then place it in a large glass bowl and cover with plastic bag for the second rise/ proof. The teflon coated pan provides the perfect rounded bottom shape, is non-stick and keeps your wonderful hand shaping intact. For Seeded Sour, you can also then spritz the formed loaf in the pan with water, and then sprinkle the seeded mixture on to the shaped dough and gently pat it in for good coverage and seed retention while rising.
Without the handle the 8″ fry pan then fits perfectly in to a typical Dutch oven or round La Cloche. Since it is aluminum, heat is transferred very quickly and there is no issue with placing it right in to the hot dutch oven as the usual NK process demands. You might need to experiment with temps to prevent overcooking. I found that 500 was way too hot and that 440 works best in my oven for 30 minutes, and then the 15 with the lid off.
No flop, no loss of shape or oven spring, and the loaf comes right out when baking is done. Easy peasy. Also, it is very easy to handle with baking mits, and to place down in to the hot Dutch oven, unlike a flop of a proofing basket, and / or parchment which usually means handling with bare hands that can be burned. This way, there is no need to remove the oven mits from the time you open the preheated oven door, to the time you close the door. Safe! Have you ever grabbed at the lid to put it back on the dutch oven while forgetting to first put the mit back on your hand? Yeah, not good. I did it too.
Another bonus is no need to clean the proofing basket or dutch oven. And cleaning out the teflon pan after baking is a snap. Less steps = better process = consistency.
The end result is a beautifully rounded boule that rises up enough to make a bread bowl and much more toaster-friendly slices. I will send some pics soon.
Try it out, you will love it. Eric, you might even want to carry this pan or similar at Breadtopia’s store. It really makes a nice bread forming tool. I couldn’t find a suitable pan without a handle, but I am sure someone out there has made one that is teflon coated and would work, making it the perfect addition to the breadmaker’s toolbox.
PS – I also switched to all teflon coated 9×5 pans for the ANK sandwich loaf baking. I get really consistent results, a great second rise, and easy removal of the loaf after baking. Safeway sells a great model for about $4 each.
Jeff,
I do a very similar thing, except I use Reynolds Release aluminum foil. I have a stainless steel bowl which is the perfect size for the final rise. I line it with foil, sprinkle with sesame seeds, place the boule on it, and sprinkle the top with more seeds. The KNB dough is usually wet enough that the seeds stick, because I usually fold directly in the fermentation bowl, with a plastic rounded dough scraper or a silicone spatula. No flour, and no handling. The foil is easier to handle than parchment when lifting the dough into the hot dutch oven, and out at the end. I bake at 450, then take the bread completely out and brown it directly on the oven rack for 8-9 minutes.
Like your method, no cleaning the proofing bowl or the Dutch oven. I can use a piece of foil 8 or 9 times, on average. Not as satisfying as your method from an engineering perspective, but then, I don’t have to disassemble a camping skillet, either.
Isn’t it fun to mess around with these methods?
Dave. I think you will find that you will get an even better crust if you stretch the dough under and shape the loaf, even if you use the foil. Almost all of the real pro bakers I have read, talk about shaping the boule and how important that is to the final product. I guess it depends on how one wants the crust to look. But anyway, yeah, there is definitely more than one way to skin a cat.
Jeff,
I haven’t noticed that shaping makes a better crust, necessarily, but, it does make a better-looking loaf. If I’m going to show it off, I shape it and slash it, too.
Hi Eric,
Question for you… Is there any downside in extending the 18 hour proofing time to say.. 24 hours… in a cool 63 degree room? I really goofed and miscalculated the time I had to get this whole thing going. I rather not wake up at 2 in the morning.
Also any downside to using cold water to mix the starter in? I typically warm it slightly in the microwave and then use it. A friend asked this question and I suggested using luke warm (105) all the time. I think the yeast will be happier.
LOVE the seeded sour. A buddy fell in love with the crust.
Howie Cohen
Utica, NY
Hi Howie. Good to hear from you.
At 63 it might work. Normally I’d be concerned about the yeast petering out by then, but 63 is pretty dang cool. I guess you’re trying to get the recipe to conform to your schedule? If that’s the case you might want to use cold water when mixing it all up. The cold water won’t hurt the yeast at all, but just slow it down for a while, helping you achieve your 24 hr objective.
If you do try this, please let us know how it goes.
Howie,
I hope you went ahead and tried it. I’m all caught up in using sourdough these days, but when I was still always using active dry yeast, I always started with yeast right out of the fridge and cold water, and I usually let the first rise go 24 hours. I never had a failure doing that, and the flavor was better. My kitchen ranges form 72 to 74 degrees. At 63 degrees, I’ll bet yours works great.
Admittedly, I have never tried instant yeast, but I don’t think that will matter.
I think instant yeast may be faster acting than other commercial yeasts and is certainly way faster than sourdough starter, so it would be interesting to see some side by side comparisons.
Good to know you were fine with a 24 hr rise using active dry. Yet another testament to the flexibility and forgiving nature of these no knead recipes.
Tip regarding my Camp Pan technique above. I kept searching for a cheaper forming device for the boule style loaves that I bake using the No Knead Dutch Oven method. I was using the 8″ Open Country camp pan, but today I found something cheaper and therefore better for making many loaves at once. I was at the Dollar Tree chain of dollar stores, and I found a cheap 8″ fry pan. It only took about 15 seconds with a phillips screwdriver to take off the handle. Perfect for a No Knead form for proofing and then baking. Needless to say, the pan is flimsy, but perfect as a bread loaf form, and of course, only $1. I found I can fit three La Cloche or other Dutch Oven type pots in my oven at once, and then use three of these $1 8″ fry pan forms to make three great boules at once.
I like to bake up a bunch of loaves at once because its only a little more effort for each extra loaf, and I freeze the loaves that I will eat within a week or two so that I only need to bake once every 10 days or so.
2 no-knead questions:
I have a 5 qt enameled cast iron pot … smalller than the 6.5 qt called for in the recipes. Do I need to alter anything because of the size?
Someone on this site referred to a no-knead recipe in the Dec/08 Gourmet magazine. The January issues came out 2 days ago!! I couldn’t find anyone with a December copy. Could someone post the recipe here – please. I checked the Epicurious website, but its not there.
Hi Eric,
Boy, do I love your no-knead sourdough recipes! Today, I baked the parmesan- olive loaf. It came out almost like a batter out of the bowl after proofing, but I went ahead and baked it anyway. It is, without question, the best bread I’ve ever eaten. We’re talking fine bakery quality here. (Did I mention I added an entire head of roasted garlic to the mix?). So, next time I just have to proof for a shorter time. But the real beauty in these recipes is how hard they are to screw up! I’ve veered off course with lots of the directions (I use a pizza stone and a heavy overturned stainless steel soup pot for baking, change the amounts of flour types, added sunflower and sesame seeds) when making your regular no-knead sourdough and they always come out perfect! It’s really amazing. Thank you. I’m ready to go pro!
Kitchen Kate:
A 5-qt. Dutch oven is plenty big. I made a sourdough KNB this week in a 3-Qt Lodge enameled Dutch oven, and it worked perfectly. No changes needed.
I am interested in just using my starter in recipes. These no knead recipes are great!! If a recipe calls for dry/instant yeast how much starter do I use in its place? So then if I us starter instead I need to let it rise extra time (like nk sourdough) right?
Hi Gia,
In all the above videos, I just use 1/4 cup of starter in place of the yeast. 18 hours is plenty of time to let it proof. I usually don’t even go that long.
Thanks! If I was trying to use starter in other recipes would I use the same conversion, whatever the tsp amount use that in cups like above?
My personal feeling is that it’s not that formulaic. There’s a wide range of options you could go with. I would just guess at an amount of starter to start with and see what happens. You may also find that some recipes don’t convert well to sourdough leavening.
Eric,
I got the Oblong La Cloche for Christmas, and had a batch of cinnamon raisin NK proofing. It came out great. I need to expand the recipe’s based on Joe’s tips to better fill the La Cloche, but so far, a great addition to the baking tools! I agree a lot more cinnamon sugar can be added during the tri-fold of the loaf. And I was thinking of trying a rolling instead of a tri fold to get that characteristic swirl.
The only trouble with all of this bread baking is that I have to up my running to keep up with all of the yummy calories!
Happy New Year!
I noticed a distinct improvement in flavor when I ground my whole wheat flour. I just bought a cheap B&D burr coffee grinder and grind what I need when I’m making it. I also use my whole wheat flour in my sourdough starter. The bread is much nutter with a hint of rye flavor and has a pleasant after taste, something I couldn’t say for the whole wheat flours I’ve used in the past even though I kept it in the freezer. My reciepe for NKB is as follows: 3 cups of unbleached white flour, one cup of whole wheat flour, one half cup of whole wheat sourdough starter, 2 teaspoons of salt, 2 teaspoons of dill and water, I don’t measure, just keep adding till I get the right texture. Put in frig and after 3 to 5 days put in container to rise and bake at 350 for about an hour, my kids don’t like the crust when done at 450. Flavor is the bomb, very nutty and many at work say it taste like rye with the dill seed added to it.
hi eric,can i add molassas to the no kned bread recipes???
thanks
Jeff,…are you grinding wheat berries or are you regrinding wholewheat flour that already comes in the bag (Gold Medal or King Arthur)? I’m confused. Please clarify. Also is your wholewheat bread heavy or light?
Thanx
Hedy
The steel cut oats was the first No-Knead recipe I tried. Even my 8 year old daughter who won’t eat crust loved it and ate the crust! In next loaf I made, I used buckwheat flour in place of the oats. It was a moister, denser loaf. The last loaf I baked used rye and caraway seeds, similar to other submitted recipes. My husband proclaimed that his favorite. As I don’t have a ceramic or cast iron dutch oven, I used a large stoneware bowl covered with a stoneware dinner plate for baking at 450. The result is the loaves look like space ships. I’d include a photo, if I could figure out how to upload it.
Hi Eric
Have attempted the Irish Oats No Knead bread 3 times now and not having any luck with it …its turning out flat, heavy, moist inside….not too moist, just hard thick crust without a lot of “bread” inside. I think I will stick with regular No Knead breads from here on in. Thks for sharing the recipe though.
I wanted to give some bread to a neighbor whose family likes sweets, so I tried a variation on the cranberry-pecan bread. I was out of craisins, but I had dried blueberries. I decided some cinnamon would go well with the blueberries, and that I’d save my pecans for the next loaf, when I’ll have the craisins.
The results were strange. The blueberries seemed to suck all the moisture from around them. I had mixed both blueberries and cinnamon in with the dough for the long fermentation period, which I let go only 12 hours, because I had begun with a full cup of starter. When I got ready to fold the dough, the blueberries were popping out of the dough. They seemed to have robbed the cinnamon around them of all moisture, so, all over the surface of the dough, there were breaks in the dough, with cinnamon and blueberries sticking out.
I attempted to poke them back into the dough, both after folding, and after shaping. I folded this dough twice, the second time 45 minutes after the first. The dough tasted salty and a bit bland, so I sprinkled granulated sugar over the surface of the stretched dough before folding, both times.
In spite of the weird behavior of the dough, the bread came out great, and they loved it.
The next time I try dried fruit, I think I’ll soak it first.
Hedy,
I’m grinding wheat berries, not regrinding whole wheat flour. I can’t get the flour as fine as boughten flour but that’s ok, I like the texture of a llittle coarser flour and it softens nicely when it’s fermenting. It’s a little heavy but it still has a nice crumb.
I just used my new Danish whisk from the Breadtopia store for the first time. I can’t believe I ever used anything else. Highly recommended! I make several loaves a week. A real arm saver. Thanks Eric. I also measured and one can fit four oblong La Cloches side-by-side inside a standard oven. If only I could justify buying three more right away.
I regularly add a scant 1/2 cup of steel cut oats to the regular NKB recipe without any alterations and it comes out fine. You might want to give it a try with a recipe that consistently works for you. These are the steel cut, not the rolled variety of oats, although I also use a rolled oat multi grain cereal as well with different results.
Hi April
Thanks for the tip on the steel cut oats…..I have been finding the bread just comes out – not high enough —all crust—super hard crust and just not worth the work and ingreds.
Have been making regular kneaded breads with the addition of sourdough starter, instant mashed potatoes for moistness and a mix of whole wheat & bread flours.
Used my Danish wisk for the first time this morning and I LOVE it. What an energy and time saver. Helps blend everything so thoroughly. Fabulous !
I tried most of the methods above for getting the dough into a hot dutch oven and still hated having to buy parchment or slinging a glubby piece of dough in scorching hot metal!
So the MissBB Solution-
1.After a first rise of 2 hours I refrigerate my dough overnight…I get better formed and prettier loves with the dough cold!
2.French Fold
3.Bread goes on doughmakers cookie sheet coated with cornmeal.
Slash and wait…sorry I wait only 40 minutes to an hour(works great)
These baking sheets are quite large.
4.While I wait I place to dutch ovens or cooking pots about the same size
in the oven at 450 degree and let them heat up as the oven reaches temperature. The containers I dutch ovens/cooking pots I use when placed flat have no interference from handles.
****When the dough is ready I place the very hot pots right on the cookie sheet and cover the dough! My bread comes out perfectly and I don’t have to deal with the slings and hot pot problems*****
It works just the same as the dutch ovens…I can cook two boules on the cookie! and if I use a roasting pan I will be able to make multiple long baguette loaves and rolls!!!!
Now that I conquered the boule issue, I see the possibility of using my roasting pan to cook some nice baguettes, and rolls!
miss bb,
I am curious about your sheets. What is a doughmakers cookie sheet?
I am also confused how retrieving a 500 degree pot out of the oven and placing it strategically over the dough, particularly if there are multiple doughs on your sheet, is easy. I dont handle the pot at all. I slide out the rack, lift the lid off the pot by the knob with a potholder or kitchen towel and dump the dough out of the brotform into the pot, slap on the lid and push in the rack. I can’t imagine how you get the hot upside down pot off the sheet for final browning. Especially since they don’t have handles. Yikes.
I am glad this method works for you.
It’s really easy, and I love not having to disturb the dough at all by this method!
You can find doughmakers choice sheets all over the web. They have a website too. Fantastic for general baking, you can get great results without parchment. My goal was to avoid having to dump in my nicely formed and slashed dough and this really works!
The website for the large baking sheets…sorry maybe the tiny url didn’t work
http://www.doughmakers.com
14 x 20 inches
These fit my oven though I would always check your oven size before ordering!
Clarification-my pots do have handles! They just don’t interfere with making a good seal to the baking sheet so I can get get the steam effect just as I would in the traditional dutch oven method. I can use the handles to lift up the pots and cover the bread on the baking sheets easily! On the doughmaker sheets I can proof and cook two boules at a time! You could easily use the bottom of a springform with this method too.
MissBB, you might want to try the technique I outline above. I like your concept of basically putting a bell lid over each loaf, and the cold dough probably holds its shape well. But you can skip the chilling steps if you use a small 8″ pan as a form to help shape the boule as I outline above. Ultimately, what I want to do is combine several of the techniques I see here. Your baking sheet, with my forming pan, with Bob Packer’s flower pot bell cover idea to get the cheapest, and most effective way to create multiple loaves at once. A dutch oven is basically just a lid. And so any lid will do.
I envision four inverted flower pots, with an eyebolt, nut and washer through the drainage hole as a handle, on your baking sheets with four forming pans holding four loaves. I think if I select the right pots, I can fit four loaves in one standard oven all once.
Great suggestion! I won’t be able to get any flowerpots until spring here in Brooklyn! Also there are those long length terracotta planters that would work very well for baguette type loaves. Necessity is the mother of invention! (hope I got that quote right
!) Try the baking sheets…I very rarely grease them, and for the bread I just toss some cornmeal on them!
I would like to see a pic Jeff B. when you get all put together! I have been using a cast iron dutch oven type pot but would love to be able to make more than one loaf at a time. I have found that a forgotton loaf is an good loaf (I use starter). I mix it up and put it in the frig. In a couple of days when it is time for more bread get it out warm up and shape. I place it in the dutch oven to rest (no transfer) and then place in preheated oven. Though how can I keep it from sticking on bottom? Tried cornmeal, helped a little maybe I need more. Before when I rested it elsewhere and transfered dough to hot pot it didn’t stick. These loaves come out much better. And I don’t have to worry about timing either. Then I mix another one and put in frig for next time.
Hi Gia,
Cut a parchment circle for the bottom, or put the dough on a larger piece of parchment making a parchment/sling pot, and drop the entire thing into your pot.
Parchment works very nicely!
I have seen the parchment paper idea on here. I am trying to keep it simple so I don’t want to use something I have to throw away after every use. Could I oil the pan a bit before placing dough in? Oil then place dough in, rest and then bake?
I haven’t tried it, but I suspect that if you tranferred it to the pot, dusted liberally with cornmeal, just before putting it in the oven, rather than letting it rest in the pot, you’d have better results. I think the wet dough is absorbing some of the cornmeal during the rest.
I use Reynolds Release foil, instead of parchment. It has all the benefits of parchment, plus it is reusable many times.
“These loaves come out much better.”
In what ways do they come out better?
I can always go back to letting it rest on the cornmeal dusted towel and then transfer but I like taking a step out. I suppose since I use starter in these loaves and forgetting about them in the fridge really lets the starter do it’s thing. These loaves are coming out with more spring and the inside has a lighter crumb, others came out with much more dense crumb. Course I don’t know if this has to do with not preheating the pot though. I have a dark iron pot so it just may not need the preheating to get the bread I want. Guess I could line the pot with the no stick foil and rest there. Will the foil add more heat? The underside already comes out with a slighter more crispy bottom than I would like.
Gia, I suggest you try either Dave’s method of the foil, or my method of a small 8″ pan that acts as a loaf forming device. This makes it easy to allow the dough to rise, and then transfer it to the preheated dutch oven. You have to get the dutch oven preheated. That’s a key step. I spray some no-stick oil on my pans, spread around, and then dust them with cornmeal before I place the dough in. I find that this allows the loaf to release easily after baking. I also use non-stick coated pans, which helps too. I found the pans at a local dollar store. They are cheap and flimsy, but perfect as bread forms, I just took the handle off with a phillips screwdriver.
I’m still working on trying to figure out the most effective way to get four dutch ovens in a typical oven, and at a reasonable cost. I was going to use flower pots, but then became worried about what might be in the clay of those pots. Probably not food safe. So I am searching for something that I can use as a bell like lid to go on top of a smooth stone or tile that will fill a shelf of my oven. It gets trickier when you try to do more loaves, but it’s nice to consolidate work in to one day every couple of weeks.
Gia, BTW, if you use a double wall cookie sheet as suggested by MissBB upthread, then the bottom of the loaf would be less crispy. You still need to preheat the cookie sheet.
Gia,
I use a dark iron pot, too. I didn’t notice any difference in the bottom crust when I went to the foil. My tests show more oven spring with preheated oven and pot than with cold pot and oven. Your approach, with a hot oven and cold pot, is somewhere in between, I guess.
Jeff,
If the science-minded Alton Brown, who surrenders to the “food police” at every turn, isn’t worried about clay pots, I think you can rest easy.
Hi Jeff,
The cookie sheet is NOT double walled!(hate those) These are particular cookie sheets and work absolutely fantastic.
I get the same crispy crust without preheating as i do with traditional dutch oven technique.
I would worry about teflon coated cookware go up to high heat temps…think the aluminum foil, or plain old aluminum cookware from the supermarket would be just fine.
MissBB
Does anyone have a good receipe for focaccia bread?
Thanks.
can I get a small spring form to place in my dutch oven to keep my bread from spreading?
Mark,
See Jeff B’s post above for a good and inexpensive solution.
Ken, I have a great No Knead recipe for focaccia. I make it on a cookie sheet. Before I type out all the ingredients and instructions…I want to make sure you are you still interested?
Hedy
Hi Hedy
I would be very interested in your focaccia bread recipe if you dont mind? Many thanks !!!
Georgina….Happy to share.
3 C Better for Bread Flour (plus more when mixing)
1 tsp. Kosher Salt
1 tsp. yeast
pinch of sugar
1 3/4 C tap water (not warm)
Toppings: olive oil, garlic, parsley, basil, sundried tomatoes, olives, onions
Rectangular pan with parchment and cornmeal.
Combine all of the above bread ingredients in a large bowl. If dough is very watery add 1/2 – 1 C more of flour to form a soft and almost sticky dough. Knead about 10 minutes. Dough should come together and be kind of sticky and lumpy. Move dough to the side of bowl and with olive oiled hands rub oil over dough and around sides of bowl. ( If you like washing dishes take a clean oiled bowl. I use the same bowl). Cover the dough tightly on the dough with a large piece of plastic wrap. Then cover the whole bowl with a large clean plastic bag. Leave on the counter overnight. Next day….either refrigerate dough or make focaccio.
Sprinkle corn meal on parchmented cookie sheet. Stretch dough in the center of the pan to about 3/4″ high into rectagular or round or oblong shape. Cover with the oiled plastic wrap you used before. Let rise for 1 – 1 1/2 hours. Preheat oven to 400. Drizzle olive oil over risen dough…dimpling dough as you go. Top with chopped garlic and parsley, basil or chopped olives ( or whatever you like). Press into dimpled dough. Sprinkle some Kosher salt on top before putting in the lowest rack of the oven. Spritz into oven and on the dough with water bottle..close oven door fast. You will do this 3 more times…every five minutes. (This enables the inside of the dough to bake before the top burns- keeping the top wet). Bake until brown and crispy….about 35 minutes or more. Top of dough should be crispy and hard. and golden.
(Some recipes say to put a pan of water in the oven to create steam…this has not worked for me). I get a beautiful crumb from this way…with big holes and air pockets and very chewy. Cutting is a little hard….have a good sharp knife).
I also take small amounts of this dough for pizza on a pizza peel and then on a preheated pizza stone 500 degrees. Makes a great thin, crispy and chewy crust.
Enjoy. Let me know how it turns out.
Hedy
Hedy – Thanks so much for taking the time to post the receipe. I’ll give it a try.
Ken
Hi Ken and Hedy,
I like nutritious food so I use a mixture of whole flour can be rye, espelt or just whole wheat. It always turns out wonderful. I use this recipe for fougase and pizza too
My foucaccia bread is
250g whole wheat or espelt flour
250g white flour
1tbsp dried yeast
2tbsp olive oil
1 to 2 cups warm water
1tsp salt
rosemary and or thyme and roughly ground rock salt
Mix dry ingredients together add water to obtain a nice elastic ball then add the oil knead till absorbed.
Flatten out on a cookie sheet or something to about 1/4 to !/2 inch thick.
heat the oven to 200F then turn it off and put the bread inside for 20 to 30 minutes. It will double. Then grind the spices in the coffe grinder a bit this brings out the taste better. Make indentions in the dough with your fingers sprinkle the herbs on,
then some olive oil
then the salt.
Bake 450 for 15 to 20 minutes till brown at the top of the oven.
For French Fougase
Same recipe
Flatten the dough into an oval then oil the top spread olives,(black or green or both)or cheese or grilled peppers or spices on the top cut into little pieces. Then fold one side to the middle and over lap it with the other side. Decorate the top with what’s inside, score it and put in the warmed oven like the foucacia for 20 to 30 minutes to raise
It will double
Bake at 450F for 25 to 30 minutes til brown in the middle of the oven.
Put on rack to cool
Enjoy! This is good as an appetizer with wine or vermouth!
Let me know how it came out!
Toni
Awsome ! Thank you Hedy and Toni for the great recipes !!!!
Hedi
Do you really have to knead for 10 minutes? Otherwise the recipe is basically the same as NKB except for the forming (and the kneading). Please let me know, thanks!!
I tried “cold oven” method as Marge above uses, only instead of “Pampered Chef” bakeware, I used 4-1/2 quart cast iron Dutch oven. (cold) It was the Sourdough recipe.
The crust was not crackling nor very crunchy, the holes were large,…some too large. Also there was in some places a gap between the top of the crust and the crumb. My guess is that because it was a cold environment, the top layer rose up much more quickly than the crumb could follow, resulting in a gap. The pre-heated method results in a crunchier crispier, crackling crust. Still tastes great and will make great toast, but I prefer the other method. By the way, when forming the loaves, I first dipped my hands in water and then in the bag of flour. It was like wearing “flour gloves” and the wet dough DID NOT STICK AT ALL!! Great trick!~as well as dipping the plastic scraper in water…no stickie!
It’s not really kneading. It’s more of combing the very wet dough with more (not too much flour). I even let it rest for 10 minutes to see how much flour did get absorbed. I try to get the lumps out when mixing. I don’t spend a lot of time at this point. I’m just trying to make it a little smoother and determine how much more flour I need without making a stiff dough. The dough should feel more wet than tacky….and should not hold a shape at all. It is basically a KNB method that I have been using for years…and did not know the term until I stumbled upon Breadtopia.com. My family prefers the focaccio because there is more crust and less middle. (I do substitute WW for White every once in a while).
Hope that helps.
Hedy
Hi April
Thanks for the tip on the steel cut oats…..I have been finding the bread just comes out – not high enough —all crust—super hard crust and just not worth the work and ingreds.
Have been making regular kneaded breads with the addition of sourdough starter, instant mashed potatoes for moistness and a mix of whole wheat & bread flours.
Used my Danish wisk for the first time this morning and I LOVE it. What an energy and time saver. Helps blend everything so thoroughly. Fabulous !
I was able to find Amaranth and Millet in the bulk section of whole foods so made a seeded sour this weekend! I didn’t have poppy seeds so substituted flax seeds and it turned out great! The ferment stage only took 12 hours vs 18 guess my house was warm on Saturday. Considering how dense some of the flours are my crumb turned out pretty good and it makes a great turkey sandwich!
Janet Kelly (of Auntie Crae’s) emailed this photo of her fantastic no knead variation.
Janet says…
Thanks Janet!
I want to make a real Dat/nut fruit bread any good suggestions
I made the Parmesan-Olive loaf this weekend and it turned out great – very very moist bread! I didn’t have 7 full ounces of parmesan so I only use about 4 and it was pretty cheesy with just 4oz. I think it is less versatile than the seeded sour which I really liked because of all of the whole grains but it was still a very tasty loaf!
I just wanted to mention that I gave up using my sourdough starter as it got too sour for me and I’ve never been a huge fan of sourdough anyway. But I started using kefir (which I make myself) – oh WOW! What a terrific loaf of bread, light, airy, moist but not overly so, and very flavorful without that sour taste that I dislike. I highly recommend it.
Hi Donna,
That’s great! I also keep my own kefir culture (and make kefir smoothies almost every day
). Are you saying that you only use kefir as your leavening and don’t use yeast at all?
Eric, Donna…
I’ll bite. What are you talking about? It sounds intriguing – care to share the recipe?
Eric – I used the kefir with commercial yeast. I plan on trying it without to see what happens. I never really thought about the yeast content of kefir as a substitute for sourdough starter, so it will be interesting to see what happens. I will keep you posted. I plan on making 2 loaves of bread, probably starting tonight and finishing tomorrow morning, one with kefir and no yeast, one with kefir and half the required yeast.
April- Eric and I are talking about kefir. You can find a lot of information on kefir at http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~dna/kefir_cheese.html, including how good it is for you. Suffice it to say, kefir is similar to a liquid yogurt in looks and in texture. I really like kefir and was buying commercially made stuff, but it is expensive that way and I started to read the ingredients and decided it had too much stuff in it for me. Then I did some research on line and found out that I could make kefir myself, more easily than yogurt even. So I purchased 4 tbsp of kefir grains in January and have been producing kefir myself since then. I now produce 1 gallon of kefir everyday (and it could go up, but I am controlling it at that much). There is no way my husband and I can drink that much, so I am finding other ways of using it. I use it in pancakes, bread, and have started making my own cheese! When I made bread with it, the loaf was really, really good – light, airy, not too moist or too dry. In fact, for the first time since I started making knb, my loaf rose higher than my pan.
I realize this probably has only generated more questions than answers, so please feel free to ask them and I will do my best to answer them.
Eric – you are so lucky to have raw milk readily available to you. I do have a dairy about 20 minutes away, but the milk is $8/gallon and since I’m using a gallon a day, it’s a little too pricey to feed my grains with. So I used pasteurized 2% milk most of the time, and try to feed the grains once a month with raw milk. So far, the only cheese I’ve eaten is the cream cheese, which is what you get when you hang the kefir for 24 hours. My first wheel of future cheddar was dry enough for it’s first pre-wax coating. I should be able to wax it in a couple of weeks. I’ve converted a wine cooler into a cheese cave. The first wheel weighs approximately 976 grams, the 2d wheel weighs 2.5 pounds, but that will reduce as the cheese dries. I’m looking forward to trying the cheese with knb in the future! My next wheel of cheese is going to be blue cheese and I’m really looking forward to smearing that on some just baked, warm bread – mmmmmmm. Of course, I’ll have to wait about 2 months, lol.
I’ve been making no-knead with kefir, too, and am pleased to find someone else giving it a try. I’m on a mission to make more healthy, yet tasty, breads for my 3 little ones. In the past I’ve been a failure with sourdough starter so I fell into adding a little kefir in an attempt to make the ferment more effective. I really don’t know the chemistry behind it at all, but at the moment I have a loaf cooling!
Right, I have baked my breads with kefir and here is what I did.
I put three loaves together. 1 loaf was 100% whole wheat flour and kefir, 1 loaf was 100% whole wheat flour, kefir and yeast and the 3d loaf was 6 oz unbleached white flour, 10 oz whole wheat flour, kefir and yeast. Needless to say, the loaves with yeast rose quite a bit faster than the one with kefir alone. By this morning (about 19 hours after I first mixed the ingredients), the kefir only loaf was as risen and bubbly as the other 2.
I put each of the doughs in bread pans, lined with parchment paper on which I had marked which loaf was which. I let them rise in a warmed oven (I have no heat on right now and all the doors and windows are open, so this morning it was about 50 degrees in the house). They all rose exactly the same amount and were ready to bake 1 hour later.
I placed all three pans into a large roasting pan. I made a tent out of aluminium foil to create the covered pan effect, and baked as normal. There was no appreciable difference in evenness of air holes, texture, crustiness or moistness between the 3 loaves, nor in rise height. Needless to say, the loaf with the white flour was a bit lighter than the 100% whole wheat and just a touch sweeter.
Overall, however, I think I’ve found a great substitute for sourdough. The loaves have just a touch of tartness to them, without that overwhelming sourness that sourdough starter was giving to my loaves. Then only thing that I will have to do is give the dough a good 18 hours to rise (instead of the 8-10 I was doing with yeast) but I won’t have to use commercial yeast – yaaaay. Keep in mind that I am using home made kefir, not store bought. I suspect that the home made kefir has many more yeasts in it and is much more alive than the store bought kefir (although I don’t know that for sure). Anyway, if any of you have kefir, give it a shot and see what happens.
Thanks for the report, Donna. Very interesting. I’m going to give a try with the kefir only option. How much kefir did you use?
I used 2 cups – in other words, whatever liquid is called for in the recipe I replaced with kefir. I found it was a little thick that way, so I thinned it with some whey from the cheese I was making. Presumably you could use water if you needed to or just try it thick and see what happens. Good luck and let us know how it turns out!
To Marc Lowen
Re: Date/Nut Bread
If you are looking to do a date/nut No-Knead bread, in this string of messages somewhere is a recipe for cranberry/pecan bread [which I intend to try soon]. You can substitute dates for cranberries and walnuts for pecans.
That would be basically regular bread, with the fruit & nut ingredients disbursed in the dough mix.
However, if you are looking for a “dessert” type of Date/Nut bread (the kind where you use quite a bit of sugar), I have a recipe that was given to me over 50 years ago by a lady who really made a good one.
If you contact me at : arewit2000@yahoo.com with your email address, I’d be glad to forward the recipe to you
Rich Witt
Just cut into one of the Cranberry Pecan loaves. Didn’t have pecans, so I used Walnuts.
OMG!!!!!!!! SO GOOD!!!!!!!
This is going to be a huge hit with the Guests at the Lodge this summer!!!!!!!!
We are all loving it.
It’s a darn good thing we have the exercise bike & elliptic trainer out. We are all doing extra km’s to try and counteract the effects of the delicious breads we are consuming at alarming rates.
Next, Olive & Parmesan NKB … Mmmmm
Ruth
I did the oatmeal one… SO GOOD. Do you think it’ll work with raisins?
Absolutely. Toss some in at the beginning when you’re mixing everything up. Should be great.
I tried a variation on Kendra’s recipe. I didn’t have steel cut oats on hand so I substituted ground flax seed in its place. It gave the bread a nice nutty flavor, but also kept it moist. I use Jim Lahey’s baking times/method because it’s been tried and true with my oven.
Thanks for all the variations on recipes. Even though I have a bread maker I never use it, this is so much easier and I think it turns out better as well.
I have an update on using kefir as the yeast for making knb. When I started using kefir, I substituted it 100% for fluid (i.e. 2 cups kefir instead of 2 cups water). The resulting loaf was very tasty, but a bit too moist, almost sticky, after being well cooked. So I slowly reduced the quantity of kefir. I now find that 50% kefir and 50% water works perfectly. It results in a lovely, light, moist loaf of bread with air holes evenly spaced throughout the entire loaf. I get a lighter loaf with kefir, using 100% whole wheat flour, than I ever did with either regular store bought yeast or sourdough starter. The bread has a very slight sour flavor to it, very mild, which is just how I like it. I find that it takes a full 24 hours for the dough to rise the first time, approximately 30-45 minutes for the second rise. When I used store bought yeast, it took 10 hours for the first rise, and about 1 hour the 2d. With sourdough starter, it took 10-12 hours for the first rise and about 1 hour for the 2d.
The other day, for the first time, I used the kefir and made a wonderful cinnamon raisin loaf that was better than anything I’ve ever purchased.
I have been lining my dutch oven with Release foil and have not had any problem with the bread sticking. I line the pot and put it in to preheat, then put the dough in. The foil is easily wiped clean and reused.
Inspired by Donna and the need to use up some kefir, I made this loaf using only kefir for the liquid. It was indeed very flavorful. This might be a good bread to use “complex” to describe the flavor. Some of the tart, tangy kefir flavor came through.
Unlike Donna, however, whose adventurous nature I greatly appreciate, I wimped out and also threw in my usual 1/4 cup of sourdough starter for leavening. Maybe next time I’ll rely solely on the kefir for leaving too.
In case anyone is interested, this bread happens to be made up of 367 grams of kefir, 310 grams of whole kamut flour, 1 1/2 tsp salt, the starter and pretty much follows the usual no knead recipe instructions. Lacking kamut, try using any flour and shooting for the typical no knead consistency.
Kamut is low in gluten, so to keep a nice shape to the bread I baked it in an oblong la cloche which kept the dough from doing what it would have otherwise done and that’s flatten out.
do you have any no knead recipe with sun dried tomatoes?
Not that I’m aware of. But one of the great things about the basic no knead recipe is the ease with which you can experiment with adding just about any ingredient. So you might want to toss some in when initially mixing up the dough and hopefully enjoy the results.
you can add sun dried tomatoes, if you get the ones packed in the oil, add about 1 tbs. of the oil, it adds a nice taste. I have added just about everything to the basic no knead recipe: basil pesto sauce, sauted spinach, sun dried tomatoes in oil & plain, eggplant caponata (jarred), shredded cheddar cheese, pepper jack cheese, salami, pepperoni, cappocollo, proscuitto & rosemary, fried onion, fried sweet red peppers, roasted red peppers & some liquid they are in, oil cured black olives & some oil they are packed in, artichokes…and on and on. I have had great results with all the above mentioned. I might even try some fried mushrooms, mmmm. You can use what you have left over, I once added some cubed fried potatoes & onion, that was delicious. Use your imagination, it is a great and very flexible recipe.
Angel Spaccarelli
oh, two more I forgot to mention: very small fresh grape tomatoes & black pepper, and hot pepper flakes with a few dashes of hot sauce (CAUTION:wear rubber gloves when you mix this one)
*Click to enlarge
I just created another bread variety. I used canned San Marzano tomatoes (like plum tomatoes) in sauce. Instead of adding water I hand squeezed 2 of the tomatoes into my measuring cup and poured the tomato sauce in the cup to make up the 1 1/2 cups of water. I also added about 1 tsp. of olive oil, some basil, and fresh cracked black pepper. The bread was excellent, it was like eating a summer tomato salad. I also made a loaf of bread with wine. I used 1 cup of water and 1/2 cup of wine, tasted pretty good. Didn’t have a real “winey” taste either.
My wife and I recently went on a cruise that required us to criss-cross the US and then fly to South Amreica. 24 hours in planes and between flights, and the two daytime legs were in the US, where only the first class passengers get food. The rest of us could purchase a really bad sandwich for $10, if we were so inclined. So, instead of doing that, I made 2 batards of the cranberry pecan bread. We took that, some really great sharp white cheddar, some fully cooked sausages (debrecine) cut into bite-sized pieces, and apple wedges. I wasn’t too sure how the cranberry pecan bread would go with the cheese, but it turned out to be a wonderful combination. Thanks for a great recipe.
Hey Angela Spaccarelli. WOW your bread looks FAB!! I loved you ideas on how to be creative with the bread… like are you a pro baker or what… are you slashing the bread just before it goes into the oven?? and are they all yeast recipes… great rise… I have noticed at my altitude I don’t get as good of rise (aprox 4900 ft) as I did when I was only at 2900 ft. Has anyone else seen this happen??
Hi PJ3,
Thank you for the compliment! No, I am not a pro, but I am really enjoying the bread making experience. I owe it all to Eric & Breadtopia. I always stick with the original NK bread recipe. I did learn that for me consistency comes with weighing the ingredients versus using measuring cups. I learned to make the bread by mixing the dough by hand and really getting the “feel” for the dough texture. Once I felt comfortable with that I bought myself the most beautiful Cuisinart 7qt. mixer. The mixer has a timer on it and I mix the dough for 2 minutes I also put my special added ingredients in at that time as well. I let it rise for 12 or more hours, after that I form the dough into balls, dust with flour and put in a parchment paper lined bowl and cover, let rise for 2 hours. After 2 hours, I sprinkle the dough ball with flour and slash with a razor blade and transfer the bread with the parchment paper into the cast iron pots and into the oven. I bake at 445 degrees for 45 minutes. I bake 4 loaves at a time because I sell my bread to a local deli so I have to somehow speed my production, that’s also why I use the mixer.
I am now experimenting with Ciabatta bread, it is so EASY to make and is so rewarding. The recipe that I used is from the foodwishes.com website. I have a real easy way to transfer that “wet” dough onto the baking sheet. It’s simple, once the dough has risen for the 18 hours, simply pour the wet dough onto a baking sheet lined with Reynolds release foil (you can sprinkle the baking sheet with flour or corn meal if desired), sprinkle the dough with flour, then cover and let rise for the additional 2 hours, then bake as directed. You never have to handle the dough. If you can’t get the recipe from foodwishes.com I can give it to you, give it a try it’s so simple.
Angel Spaccarelli
Hey again Angela… how the heck are you getting 4 loaves of bread into your oven… those look like pretty big loaves
I have used the Cooks Illustrated method of making the knb and didn’t get as nice of crumb as I do when I don’t work the bread… are you letting the loaves rest for the 15 min before you put them into the bowls… I am at 4900 feet and I am pushing as much flour into the loaf as I can with a spoon and the dough is still WAY wet after 12 hrs… I am using a high quality bread flour to make the bread… what kind of flour are you using… contactpj3@gmail.com
Thanks for all your posts… for sure
I forgot to mention that I have some pretty awesome looking bread… I am just not getting the rise that you are……………
Hi PJ3,
I’m glad I can try and help you. I use four 4 qt. size pots, they fit just perfect in my oven. I have a real standard GE oven too! I am surprised as well. They are really nice sized loaves. I am so proud of the bread because bread is the one thing that I have been trying for many years to successfully make. I did monkey around with the recipe for 2 months straight making bread every day, to the point where I found myself buying the economy size 50lb. bag of flour. The flour I purchase is from a restaurant supply it’s called, Gold Medal full strength, baker’s enriched bromated flour, however, I do get the same results if I use the 5lb. bag of bread or all-purpose flour from the grocery store. When I incorporate some whole wheat flour, the rise isn’t as high, but it is decent. I do use the SAF yeast.
As far as the wetness goes, my dough is not wet at all. I’m sure that makes the difference in the crumb, you can actually form the dough into a ball by hand without it sticking sometimes needing a small amount of bench flour. The bread has a small holed crumb but the bread is not dense, it is hollow sounding when you knock on the bottom of the loaf after it is baked. When I make that Ciabatta bread I wrote about that dough cannot be handled, it is WET and it has a very large holy moist crumb.
I used to let the dough sit for 15 minutes before forming into the balls, but again I was looking to expedite the bread production because I had to make so many loaves, I tried skipping the 15 minute waiting period, and it works. After the initial long rise, I dump the dough out onto a floured surface, fold it over itself as Eric instructs and form into the ball, dust with flour and put in the parchment lined bowl, cover and let rise for 2 hours.
This is the recipe that works for me: 1 lb. 3 1/4 oz. bread flour, 1 1/2 tsp. salt, 1 1/2 cups water. When I add wet ingredients like the jarred roasted red peppers, I will cut back on the water because the peppers are rather moist and in place of some of the water I will add some of the liquid the peppers are packed in.
Good luck, I hope this helps.
Angel
Hi Angel, I agree, your beautiful breads are so inspiring! How do you make that cute decorative pattern on them (which I assume is flour or corn meal)? Is it just from the slashing pattern? (and thanks for all the ideas on added ingredients!)
Sherry
Angel, thanks for all the tips but reading your recipe I think the yeast is missing are you using 1- 1/2 Tablespoons?
And is your oven a standard 30 ” oven? What brand of dutch ovens are u using? Lodge logic? And are the 4 pots on the same rack? Dutch ovens are heavy.
Thanks again for the info.
Samuel
Hello fellow bread enthuisasts,
I am so happy to see that others share in the joy of baking bread and I am equally as happy to share my experiences and trials with others.
As far as the pattern is concerned, after the last 2 hour rise, I flour the top of the dough balls then slash the pattern with a razor, then put in the dutch ovens to bake.
I am truly sorry for omitting the most important ingredient-the yeast! I use the SAF yeast, 1/4 teaspoon. Yes, I just measured the oven, it is the standart 30″, the inside dimension of the oven is 24″ wide by 18″ deep. I got lucky at The Christmas Tree Shop and found the Dutch ovens, the perfect size, they are a “no name brand” but perform beautifully. I fashioned my own handles out of plumbing shut off handles. The pots are heavy and I can see the oven rack crying when I bake the 4 loaves, but heck what’s the oven for? The racks only bend slightly, but once I remove the pots they are fine. I know I shouldn’t do this because my oven isn’t the cleanest right now and the pots look real “used” but I am enclosing a picture of the pots in the oven, it’s haard to believe that I manage to get 4 pots in at one time, here’s the proof. After several uses I gave up scrubbing the pots after each use, it’s only baked on loose flour, I give them a good washing after a few bakings. My husband thinks they look like what they were intended for and the flour is more or less a badge of honor.
Thank you all sincerely for the beautiful comments, I am happy to share any of my knowledge to help others. I am there too and enjoy reading all the trials and tribulations that we all have.
Angel
somehow the oven image didn’t appear, let me try again.
Angel
Samuel,
I, too, have made four loaves at a time and anyone can do it very inexpensively. Measure your oven dimensions with the rack in place and buy terra cotta saucers to fit the width, most likely the 8″ size. I can fit four of these in my oven easily in a zig zag pattern. The best pots to use are the shallow ones used for planting bulbs or azalea. These are shorter than the standard and fit best. Use the pots as the lid and make sure they fit the saucers. I used large washers and stainless steel eye hook to make a handle through the hole. I didn’t want to use any other metal for fear of fuming out or melting at high temps. I was planning to bake for my local farmers market although my plans fell through at the last minute. The system did work well, though.
These loaves are beautiful! I tried making some they came out so- so but the crust too hard and the baking made my home too hot. Since I love sourdough toast in the morning and not wanting to heat up my home in the summer I began to wonder if I could use my bread machine- I know this is taboo (smile). After some failed experiments I then came up with a pretty decent sourdough loaf – that is great for sandwiches and toast. So here is my version of a “non knead method” since the bread machine does the work- enjoy!
You will need:
Bread Machine
1/2 cup of very active starter- I just use mine straight from the fridge(cold) without “feeding” – But I do feed what remains in my crock before putting that back in the fridge
1 cup of lukewarm water
3 cups unbleached white flour
1 TBS sugar
1 tsp salt
1 TBS oil
Add water, sugar, oil, and sourdough starter to bread machine pan and stir until starter is dissolved or almost dissolved. Add all remaining ingredients and set the machine to DOUGH CYCLE. You might want to watch for about 10 minutes to make sure you don’t need to add a bit more water or flour and that it is forming a nice ball.
Trick for why this works. I set my machine up before going to bed- about 10 pm. The dough cycle which kneads the bread takes about 90 minutes and while I’m sleeping it is rising.
When I get up at about 6 am I have a fully risen loaf!
Now the most important step . DO NOT knead or punch down this loaf!!! You will bake from this point. Make sure you then just click the “BAKE” cycle, start, and then and in about an hour you should have a great tasting (non artisan) loaf of sour dough bread that is great for toast or sandwiches.
Correction- sorry that is 1/2 tsp of salt- not 1 tsp.
Angel, I do not see your oven’s picture with the 4 pots inside, did you have problems adding the picture to the page, if so could you please email it to the following email: sagaxiola@cliper.com.mx, I am very interested on seeing that picture,
thanks,
Samuel.
I got an email that the upload for pictures has been fixed. I will try again to post the picture of the 4 Dutch ovens in my oven.
Angel
*Click to enlarge
Looks great Angela. That’s what those Dutch Overns are for!
Can someone send me a recipe for No knead Gluten free bread.
Thank you.
Vital Wheat Gluten?
Hello,
I’ve made the regular no knead bread and have had great success. Yesterday I baked the variation using the steel cut oats and added 3% (13.5g) vital wheat gluten in a recipe that contained 450g flour plus another 104g steel cut oats, so it doesn’t seem to be all that much vital wheat gluten that was added. The loaf came out perfect with large holes, etc., but the bread seems to have a slightly strange taste and after-taste. I have never eaten steel cut oats not have I ever before used vital wheat gluten, so I can’t tell if this taste can be attributed to either of these ingredients. The dough also fermented for a full 18 hours at about 75F and was quite bubbly when I placed it into the banneton where it proofed for another two hours, so I’m not sure I’m not picking up what amounts to a slight sourdough tang, although this has never happened with my prior breads not using these two new ingredients.
Any comments would be appreciated.
Thank you.
Hi Mitch,
I don’t think it would have come from the oats but I haven’t added vital wheat gluten so not sure about that. I’d guess it has more to do with the 18 + 2 hour hours. That’s a long time at 75 degrees and would produce more acids which break down the gluten. Maybe try something like 12-14 hours on the long proof and no more than 1 1/2 on the final and see what happens (assuming your room temp is about the same 75 degrees).
Please comment back here and let us know what you do and what happens.
Hi Eric,
Thank you for your reply. The previous time when I baked this bread (without the oats and gluten) I did the fold after 16 hours and proofed for about 1-1/2 hours. It went to 18 hours this time because I had no way of knowing if the steel cut oats would be soft enough before that amount of time. Also, the nighttime temperatures were a bit lower, perhaps 70F so I figured I had better go a full 18 hours, but perhaps it was too much. It also proofed for 2 hours because it seemed to need that amount of time to get a decent rise in the basket.
But with the next loaf I will go for the shorter times you recommend (assuming the same temperatures) and will post my results.
Do you have any kind of chart suggesting the length of fermentation times for differing room temperatures?
Mitch
I didn’t think about softening the oats. You’re right about needing time for that. Maybe 12-14 hours wouldn’t be enough. Of course you could soak them in water for a while first. The second proofing doesn’t need to show a lot of rise before you bake as long as the yeast or starter is healthy and hasn’t used up a lot of its available food. I tend to err on the short side for proofing times and count on oven spring to get a nice final rise. It’s easier to get good oven spring with shorter proofing times since the yeast still has a lot of strength left and food to work with.
Hi Eric,
Actually, I didn’t get much, if any, rise in the oven (using a covered terra cotta baker) so it sounds as if the yeast may have been depleted by then.
I think I will soak the steel cut oats next time or maybe even cook them up to be sure they are soft enough — and I will take into account any water gained or lost in the process.
On the subject of water, I find that the dough after fermentation is so sloppily wet that it really is very difficult to handle. Would it really be a problem with this no-knead method if the dough was just a little drier, so that it didn’t flop all over the place?
Thanks,
Mitch
I had huge success with watching the dough on the first rise… I let it rise until it just starts to fall… and I really like Eric’s (method) idea of erring on the short side of time for the second rise… I’m gunna try that next time
My guess is if the steel cut oats are not offensive in texture… why soak them longer… I sometimes like a little texture in my bread
It’s definitely fine to add more flour (or reduce the water) to get a stiffer dough so it’s not so floppy later. The dough must pull moisture out of the air during proofing, since it can look fine when first mixed up. I’ve always been amazed at the variance of experiences with dough consistency between people following the same exact recipe and weighing out ingredients. But hey, who wants bread baking to be that easy?
Hi PJ3,
Steel cut oats are not like rolled oats that are used to make oatmeal. They are very hard and because of that they take much longer to cook than oatmeal. If they are not either pre-cooked or sufficiently pre-soaked, I don’t know if they would be soft enough to be satisfactory for eating.
Eric,
The bowl is covered with plastic wrap so it’s not picking up any moisture from the air. It’s just that the hydration is very high to begin with and after the long fermentation it becomes very, very slack. Perhaps the fact that it gets soooooooooooo slack is an indication that the gluten has broken down and that it has fermented way too long. In your video I believe you say “It’s been about 16 hours” and your dough appears to be somewhat more manageable. Do you recall what the room temperature was during those 16 hours? Once bubbles start to form on the top of the dough would you say that it has fermented enough regardless of the elapsed time?
Mitch
Hi Mitch,
sorry for breaking in…just wanted to give you some of my experiences. I think you are correct about watching the dough more than the actual hours. I have noticed if the dough is really slack and runny it’s been too long or too warm (room temperature). Quite honestly, I stop at 12 hours, that is sufficient, sometimes it may go 13-14 hours but, that’s it for the first rise. I’m not sure about the kind of bread you are making, those are just my experiences with the original NK recipe using white flour only. Hope this input helps.
Angel
I don’t remember the room temp when I went 16 hours, but like Angela, 12 hours seems very adequate unless the room is quite cold. I just haven’t made the steel cut oats recipe since going with the shorter times. Softening the oats was never a problem with the longer times. When I make it again, I’ll soak in water for at least a few hours first.
On the recipe texts – ferment, baking temps & times & internal temps would be helpful. The Parmesan/Olive loaf is wonderful. Thank You!
Angel,
Please feel to “break in” anytime!!! I had tried the original NK bread (using 2/3 King Arthur bread flour and 1/3 King Arthur whole-wheat flour) a few times and it was invariably good each time. This time I again used the 2/3 and 1/3 flours but added 23% (Baker’s percent) of steel cut oats and 3% vital wheat gluten to help the rise given all of those oats. According to my notes, when I was finished mixing the batch (at 6:30 p.m) the room temperature was around 82F. I put the bowl on the windowsill (with the window open). The outdoor temperature was at 78F, predicated to go down to 63F overnight. I stopped fermenting at 12:30 p.m. the next day, which was 18 hours later. I failed to check the dough temperature at that time. After it rested, proofed, baked, and cooled, I tasted a slice and then gave the loaf to my son-in-law, for whom I actually baked it. His follow-up email on it was “Bread is good but not a ton of taste, but still good.” He was apparently happier with it than I was although he was not as enthusiastic about it as he usually is. He then said that dipping it in some salted olive oil boosted it considerably. Of course I judge the results BEFORE the bread is doctored up because to me that’s the true test, but at least he was able to improve the taste to make it better than it originally was. I will watch the dough more carefully next time and let that guide me more so than watching the clock. And I’ll soak the oats for a few hours just to be sure they aren’t too hard to enjoy eating.
As Robert added above, temperatures as well as times would be helpful to those just starting on this journey.
Thanks to you all.
Mitch
You are correct, experience is the key word here. After many trials, I am now able to tell just be feeling my dough if it has the moisture that I am looking for. I originally learned to mix the dough with the best tools we have been given, “hands” and really got the feel for the texture of the dough. After about 100 loaves, I was confident enough to use my mixer. Every day, every season is different, I think the flour dictates how much moisture we need to add. Sometimes the flour is more compact, or during the summer it does hold moisture, rather than use measuring cups I prefer to weigh. Also if you are like me, which I add every kind of ingredient under the sun to flavor my breads, some additions are more moist too. For instance when I add ingredients like fried onions, or roasted red peppers, I will cut back on the water. When I use dry additives such as sopresata, prosciutto, or salami, the water measurement stays the same. Another result that I discovered is that if I am using salty ingredients such as the dried meats, cheeses, or olives, I notice that the loaves sometimes don’t rise as much, of course then I consider cutting back on some salt. I also know that if I use moist ingredients, the crust doesn’t remain crispy. It is nice and crispy once I take them out of the oven, then after cooling off they soften up some. Cure for that is before serving pop in the oven for a few minutes, and the crust is crispy again (kind of like a biscotti, twice baked!). It’s fun to learn these tips and observations by experimenting and to keep moving on, don’t be disappointed keep trying and with a little adjusting here and there you will do just fine! and ask a lot of questions, between all of us there is a lot of experience here with all kinds of issues. Every loaf is as individual as we are, once you get comfortable with your recipe, the possibilities are endless.
Angela… your notes are always a joy to read… they are oozing with kindness… willing to share and not in fear that someone else is going to do better than you… always hoping that someone will do better than they are now… I have just ordered some Tramontina pots from Walmart… they are the Triply stainless steel ones… I have been cooking in an All Clad pot and having huge success… much lighter than the cast iron pots… I did start weighting my floor and that has help me out tons and I did start mixing 4 loaves at a time in the mixer… what a great way to do it, saves a bunch of time… my pots won’t be here for 2 weeks but will let you know how they work out… bless you for all of you kind words
PJ3
PJ3,
I have a teeny 20″ oven so it wouldn’t do me much good to mix 4 loaves at once, but I am curious as to what make and model mixer you have that allows you to mix 4 loaves at a time. I normally make two loaves at a time. I have a KitchenAid Pro 6 that, according to KitchenAid, is supposed to be able to handle a total of 2 pounds of bread and/or whole wheat flour at once. The dough keeps climbing up the “C” dough hook and is driving me mad. Some suggested (on TheFreshLoaf.com) that perhaps I was making too much dough at once or that the dough was too dry. So, yesterday, I made just a one pound (of flour) loaf and the dough wasn’t all that dry, and guess what? The dough still kept climbing up the dough hook. KitchenAid says that you shouldn’t use the newer model spiral dough hook (which supposedly prevents the dough from climbing the hook) on this model machine but I am so fed up with the dough climbing up the “C” hook that I’m willing to chance it — and if the machine dies in the process, so be it.
Mitch
YIKES… the reviews that Kitchen Aid gets… I have a Bosch Universal Mixer and love it… I generally make wheat bread and I can make 6 – 1.5 lbs loaves at one time… so 4 loaves of KN is no problem, they are about 1 lb loaves. The Kitchen Aid must be good for everything else not sure I’ve never had one… (but have had friend that have had em) I just don’t understand the fascination of that machine… they come in colors?? The Bosch is hands down the best bread making machine on the planet… and by far the best and easiest for everything else too… I bought mine here – http://www.spoilthecook.com/bosch/Bosch-Universal-Plus-Combos.html
Dear PJ3,
It could be that the kitchen Aid mixer doesn’t cost $400. I nearly popped a gasket when I followed your link! My KA is 16 years old and still going strong, same model as available today.
Not to say that the Bosch is bad, but if I were to spend that kind of money on a mixer I would also consider the Electrolux DLX recommended by Jeff Varasano.
http://www.varasanos.com/PizzaRecipe.htm#GreatPizzerias
Thank you PJ3 for the kind words. I love to see people succeed and also to share my knowledge, whatever it might be, because it can be frustrating when you have nowhere to turn for answers. Breadtopia is a wealth of knowledge, it’s like teamwork! We can help one another. Those pots sound good, went to the Walmart website and saw them. Do you think the bottoms of the pots might be thin? I didn’t see them in person, only the picture on the internet. I would be interested to hear how they work for the bread, that would be a lot lesser weight load on my oven rack being that I bake 4 at a time, my oven would thank me for that. I see that if you order from the internet, the shipping is free, that saves a trip to Walmart, I always say I’d rather get a root canal than buck the Walmart traffic!
A note on the mixer, my recent purchase is the Cuisinart 7.0 quart- 1000 watt motor, model SM-70BC (http://www.cuisinart.com/products/stand_mixers/sm-70.html). I did the research and found the Cuisinart to have the strongest motor and the largest capacity mixing bowl. I love this mixer, however, it is quite large for smaller jobs, I did call Cuisinart and they said that I could also use the 5.5 qt. bowl with this model. I use speed 3 for the bread dough and mix for 2 minutes. I mixed some bread dough last week and noticed that the dough was climbing up the hook too, I just added more flour and it came off, I am assuming that the dough was too wet. I only had that problem once. It wasn’t my usual bread recipe, I was trying something different.
I found a real nice recipe for grissini (bread sticks) for anyone that likes making them, it’s easy and very rewarding. Even if you haven’t ever made them before, this is real fun. Here’s the link: http://www.italianfoodforever.com/iff2008/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=608:grisssini&catid=47:cbreads&Itemid=65
I think if you like making bread, you will enjoy this. Of course, I fiddled around with the recipe too, I made some with black olives, and also made some with basil pesto. Enjoy!
Angel
Angle… I have read nothing but rav reviews on these pans… but not for the purpose of baking bread
they are very similar to the All Clad… I will be cutting off the handles to nubs so 4 will fit into the oven (ouch)… I for sure will let you know my results (they won’t be here until the 23 Sept)
Shipping is free… however they are shipped to the local Walmart to be pickup up
nothing is more fun than giving bread away 
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As far as mixers go… to each there own… the Kitchen Aid or the Electrolux DLX would NOT make 6 loaves of bread and that’s what I make the most… I make 6 loaves a week and give 5 of them away
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Angle… FYI… I am using the Rubbermaid “Take-A-Longs” 3.25 qt (even comes with a lid) as a proofing basket for the KN bread… I butter the sides so sesame seed will stick to the sides… works GREAT for me… I use it for the initial 12 hr rise and the 2 hr proof…
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Angle… How many KN loaves of bread are you making a week?? Are you selling them?
Hi April,
I cannot believe that I’m suddenly an active participant here.
The KitchenAid Pro 600 lists for $500 and sells at most places (such as Bed Bath & beyond) for $400. Of course if you have the 20% off coupon, which they issue all the time, that drops the price to $320, which is not that much less than the Bosch machine at $400. And, you may have to pay tax on that KitchenAid depending where you live, but I don’t think they collect tax on that Bosch link, so the difference is even less.
Of course as soon as one starts talking about a “better” machine than the KitchenAid, Electolux owners swear by the Electrolux, Bosch owner swear by the Bosch, and Cuisinart owners swear by the Cuisinart, etc. I have read comments from Electroluux owners who say that Customer Support on the Electrolux is horrendous (such as non-existent). But that’s another story.
I think I read on either the Bosch site or the Electolux site that the machine kneads the dough so thoroughly that it needs virtually no fermentation time. Unfortunately, it’s the extended fermentation that gives bread its artisan flavor, which distinguishes it from commercial bread that essentially comes out of the mixer and into the loaf pan and out of the oven, all within about an hour. If I wanted a bread that came out of the mixer and out of the oven in a flash, I wouldn’t bother baking my own bread and I’d just buy it in the supermarket. So it seems strange that the manufacturer of a machine designed to mix a fairly large batch of dough at home would tout its ability to knead the dough so extensively as to essentially eliminate the need for a decent fermentation. Oh well.
Angel, it’s interesting that you solved the problem of the dough climbing up the hook by adding more flour. Here is the quote from a kind person on TheFreshLoaf.com that I mentioned earlier:
“Thought I’d mention that my experience with the KA mixer is that the dough only climbs over the collar of the C-hook in one of two circumstances: 1) I’m exceeding the recommended amount of dough for my model by a significant amount, or 2) I haven’t got the hydration right either for the bread or the machine.
“Re: #2 and contrary to advice in my KA manual, I usually have to add a little water — not flour. When I hear the slap slap of the dough against the sides of the bowl, I know I’ve got the hydration right. Sometimes all it takes is a few drops. ”
My dough doesn’t necessarily climb OVER the collar but it sure climbs up to it. If I let it keep going it probably would go over the collar. I had written to KitchenAid about the problem and their representative claimed that even when the dough is all on the hook and just goes round and round, it is still kneading. Somehow, when the dough is clinging to the hook and just going round and round I don’t see that it’s kneading; to me it’s just going round and round and I can’t accept the fact that it’s doing anything other than that. Maybe I’m wrong.
I suspect that these comments will elicit some response.
Mitch
Mitch,
Wow, I wasn’t aware that Kitchen Aid is now producing super high end mixers as per their website. I have the Heavy Duty 5 qt and you can still score one for a few bucks over $200 (just googled it). Still roughly half the price. I think I got mine at Macy’s but they are now carrying the more expensive models. I hope mine holds out a good while longer!
April,
As I understand it, the older KitchenAid machines were manufactured by Hobart, and they were very well made and long lasting. It wasn’t until Hobart sold off the brand that the quality began to suffer.
Mitch
PJ3,
Just a quick correction – the DLX can easily handle up to 8 loaves at a time. I know you’re perfectly happy with your Bosch, I just don’t want anyone who might be considering a DLX to be misinformed.
Russ
Sorry… from the video that I saw… it looked very small… I was so wrong
here is info that I copied from http://www.pleasanthillgrain.com/
the bowl is even larger than the Bosch… 8 qt against 6.5 qt
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The DXL
The large 8 quart stainless steel bowl of the Magic Mill holds up to 28 cups of flour (7 lbs.), to make approximately 15 lbs. of bread dough (7-10 loaves). The efficient, high-torque 600 watt motor runs smoothly and quietly; coupled with an advanced transmission design, it providing ample power to mix and knead even the largest batch of heavy bread dough without straining. The Magic Mill was given its nickname, “The Workhorse Mixer” not by its manufacturer Electrolux, but by users who praise this powerful kitchen helper that’s so enjoyable to use.
____________________________________________________________
The Bosch
Polypropylene 6.5 Qt. bowl holds up to 15 pounds of dough That’s enough to make up to nine loaves of bread, in one batch! The new Bosch Plus features an 800 watt motor… PS (I don’t think I could get 9 loaves… I fill mine to capacity and only get 6 loaves)
For the Bosch Owners,
I just read these comments from two reviewers on Amazon’s website who love the machine but had this to say about cleanup:
1 – Cleanup is not fun, not fun at all. I did not like the design of the bowl in this aspect. There are plenty of crooks and crevices that dough gets in that take some scrubbing to get out. Also, the top/center of the bowl serves as the “gears” for some of your accessories, but when not using them, they catch quite a bit of food in them, and it is difficult to clean.”
2 – I had a kitchen aid before I bought the bosch. While it mixes dough really good, cleaning up is really not fun. With the kitchen aid, I had only the stainless steel bowl, and 1 attachment to clean. However, with the bosch, I have to wash the plastic splash shield, all those little paddle, and the bowl, the gear under the bowl…”
Any comments?
Mitch
does anyone on this forum have a Bosch or am I the only one??
Hi All,
I haven’t been posting for some time as we are super busy with work. But, in the meantime, my work involves making bread almost everyday, depending on the number of Guests I am feeding. Yay!
Question: Does anyone use a 20 qt. Hobart commercial mixer? A regular return Guest gave me one. (how cool is that?) It has a giant whisk, (I call it the bird cage) and the paddle. I’m hoping to find a dough hook, but should I? It would make life a bit easier when I’m mixing up enough dough to make several loaves. But I wonder about how well it will work… Any help is greatly appreciated.
Have a great day & take care,
Ruth
PJ3
I use the same Rubbermaid bowls for my second rising as you do, I got mine in Walmart, they are the perfect size. I was making 22 loaves a week, not all at the same time, so I invested in the commercial 6 qt. bread rising buckets for the first rise. I was baking bread for a restaurant and a deli. I stopped baking for the restaurant because it consumed too much of my time and was not cost effective, I am baking from home and it was difficult. I still bake 4 loaves a week for the local Italian deli and whatever else we need at home. I am interested in hearing your results with the new pots when you get to use them.
As wonderful as my Cuisinart mixer is, I never mix more than one batch at a time. I don’t know why. I guess because I need the size consistency in order to sell them, which I could achieve by weighing each dough ball! Some customers just don’t understand about Artisan rustic looking loaves and expect them all to be identical in size and shape. I also make so many different flavor variations that I cannot mix them together.
Angel
Here are 12 loaves ready to go to a party.
Angel
*Click to enlarge
Angela… Why can’t you use the Rubbermaid bowls for the first rise?? Is there that much difference in the bowls??
Wow Angela those are beautiful loaves. Question about dutch ovens or other baking method. I use a dutch oven but it is not enamel lined. Do you get a better loaf from an enamel lined one? Mine is the only method I have tried. Anyone try different dutch oven (enamel lined and not) vs say the La Cloche. Course I know the dutch oven has many uses so it makes a wonderful addition to the kitchen.
Angel,
If I made just ONE loaf that looked like that I could die happy. Please, please, please give us instructions detailing EXACTLY what you did from start to finish (including times and temperatures where possible), because never, never, never, have I wound up with a loaf that looked even close to yours. Not to mention that you slashed them as well. My dough going into my baker seems much too weak to attempt slashing for fear it will collapse.
Mitch
PJ3…I don’t use the Rubbermaid for the first rise because I don’t think the bowl is large enough when the dough starts to rise, sometimes they get pretty big, especially when I use roasted or fried sweet red peppers. There must be a lot of sugars in the red peppers, therefore, making a lovely enviornment for the yeast. I feel like I should give the dough as much room as it needs to grow for the first rise.
Gia…Thank you. I have used both the black cast iron and the LaCloche in addition to the enameled cast iron. I have almost similar results with all 3. I did notice with the black cast iron that the bread does brown more and you might have to adjust the oven temperature. I was lucky enough to get 4 of the same size enameled cast iron Dutch ovens and that they all fit in my oven at the same time. What works for me is 445 degrees for 45 minutes, I have an electric oven.
Thank you for all the wonderful compliments! I will start from the beginning. My room temperature is from 75-80 degrees, no drafts. During the winter I like to rise my dough in the same room as the wood burning stove, which means the room temperature is between 80-85 or even 90 degrees! For my first rise I go by 12 hours, or by checking the consistency of the dough if the room is really warm it may even be 11 hours, but I will move the dough if it’s too warm. I like to rise at least 12 hours, if it looks like it can rise a little more and isn’t getting bubbly, runny & wet I will let it go an hour or two more. After the initial 12 hour rise, when I form my dough into a ball, the dough consistency is more on the dry side than wet. Sometimes it is a little loose and I might sprinkle it with some flour so that I can work with it.
EQUIPMENT: 6 qt. bread rising buckets, also use large Pyrex bowls, Cuisinart 7 qt. mixer or hands, Rubbermaid 13 cup plastic bowl (for second rise), disposable shower caps, plastic shopping bags.
INGREDIENTS: Gold Medal full strength bread flour (50 lb bag purchased at a restaurant supply), SAF yeast, Iodized salt, tap water, I have artesian well water, no chemicals added
RECIPE: 1 lb. 3 1/4 oz. bread flour, 1 1/2 tsp. salt, 1/4 tsp. SAF yeast, 1 1/2 cups water*
INSTRUCTIONS:
1. In mixer bowl or large pyrex bowl, combine flour, salt, & yeast. Stir with a whisk to fluff the mixture. Add water and whatever flavor variations (olives, cheeses, dried deli meats, vegetables, etc.)the reason for the *on the water is that I will adjust the water according to what I am adding, if I am adding roasted red peppers or onions sauteed in olive oil, (they are pretty wet), I will cut back on some water…but for added flavor I will substitute some of the liquid from the peppers for some water, that goes for the olives, when I purchase them I make sure to get some of the oily brine they are packed in, I will add some of the olive brine.
2. I set my mixer for 2 minutes, speed 3. At 2 minutes my dough is where I want it to be, if it’s too wet I will slowly sprinkle in some flour, if it’s too dry I slowly add some water. I like the dough consistency to be on the stiff side, not sticking to my hands and releases easily from the dough hook. If I mix by hand I start out with the dough whisk then finish with my hands. When I say stiff I don’t mean that you can form a ball with the dough and it will remain in that shape.
3. I put the dough in the rising bucket, or leave in the Pyrex bowl, and cover with the plastic shower cap. Let dough rise for 12 hours (more or less).
4. After 12 hours, slide dough out of bucket onto work surface sprinkled with bench flour. When I make many loaves, I don’t let it rest for the additional 15 minutes, but if you have the time let the dough rest for 15 minutes. After 15 minutes, stretch the dough out into a rectangle, if the dough is slack dust with flour, if not fold as Eric instructs, like an envelope, side on top of side, then top over bottom. Pick up and form into a ball, making sure you tighten up the ball and form a skin but being careful not to deflate too much, you don’t want to hear too many bubbles popping, also being sure to seal up the bottom by pinching. I place the dough ball on parchment paper and sprinkle with flour, then pick up the dough ball in the parchment and place in the Rubbermaid bowl and cover with plastic grocery bag and let rise for 2 hours, again watch this at the 2 hour mark, if the dough is breaking apart and is loose or jiggly, that’s too long, it should be somewhat still on the firm side but nice and puffy.
5. After 2 hours, usually the dough ball has absorbed the flour that I sprinkled on top before the rise, so I will sprinkle again with flour and slash. Pick up the parchment with the dough ball and place the whole thing in the Dutch oven or La Cloche and into the pre-heated 445 degree oven for 45 minutes. Remove lid and see if it is as dark as you like, if not, leave lid off and brown to the way you like but be careful because the bottom is still browning as well.
That’s it. I know my saga sounds long, but without doing a video, I have to write it this way in order to convey my actions. I hope this helps anyone that may be trying this for the first time or struggling, it is really simple and rewarding, and most of all many thanks to Eric for teaching us!!!!!!!
My two cents. Enjoying the comments of late. I’ve found that the Steel Cut Oats always soften just fine, even with a 12 hour rise. No need for anything fancy. Flavor is always good as well with steel cut oats. Flavor is very subjective. If you want more flavor, add more stuff. For example, the Seeded Sour recipe has more flavor than the basic Steel Cut Oats recipe. But for big flavor, add all the peppers, olives, etc. that Angela adds.
I’ve never found that enamel or not matters in a dutch oven. And yeah, I second the crust crisping techniques of Angela. I suspect that bread is like glass in that it needs annealing. If one used a gradual temperature decline annealing as the bread cooled, there would not be the softer more moist crust after cooling. The quick insert in to the oven before cutting does crisp up the crust. Probably easier than rigging up an annealing oven that slowly drops the temp.
Maybe we can move the bread mixer comments to another thread?
BTW, Angela, you are a real baker. Nicely done.
I do have one question. What and how do you use to get such perfect slashes? I have not found a good slashing knife yet.
Happy baking folks.
Angel,
Thank you so much for taking the time and trouble to write that in such detail. It was all extremely helpful but what may have been the most enlightening was that you are using roughly 20% more flour for the same amount of water that Eric is using for the same amount of water. As such, using Baker’s Percentage, your hydration is roughly 66.5 % whereas Eric’s is 80%. That is a major difference in hydration. I was under the impression that the dough had to be reasonably wet (based on Eric’s formula) in order for the 12+ hour fermentation technique to work, but you clearly have dispelled that — unless, without realizing it, you are adding a lot more liquid then the 1-1/2 cups once the dough starts coming together.
Mitch
Is there any way to edit a message once it’s posted.
Angel,
I forgot to ask you why you use the mixer, given that Eric says to just mix everything together in the bowl and then let it sit and ferment.
Now that I think of it, I wonder if the kneading that takes place in the mixing bowl is what allows you to shorten your fermentation time to roughly 12 hours compared to Eric’s 16 to 18 hours. Or, of course, it could just be that your kitchen is somewhat warmer than his. Or some combination of the two.
Mitch
Jeff B…for my slashes, I simply use a single edge razor blade, works well. On the steel cut oats, I added them in dry with no problems, they softened up to my liking enough during the rising periods.
Mitch…I am certain that I use only 1 1/2 cups of water, I have a plastic container that I marked with a sharpie at the 1 1/2 cup measurement and use that all the time. Don’t forget that I do add a lot of moist ingredients to my dough, but even when I use dried meats & cheeses, it still remains the same. Yes, the hydration is less than Eric’s as you pointed out, that’s why I have that stiffer dough on the first go round and that’s more than likely why I even have a firmer ball of dough after the 2 hour rise.
The reason I use my mixer is that when I am making several loaves 10 or more, it’s really time consuming to hand mix each loaf, therefore, when they are rising they aren’t created equal anymore. With the mixer it is only 2 minutes between the loaves. I also notice that when I use the mixer the crumb is smaller than when I mix by hand it has bigger holes. I will attach a picture of the inside of a loaf that was made using the mixer, I don’t have any pictures of hand mixed. Mitch, you probably are correct with the fact that some kneading does take place during those 2 minutes in the mixer, let’s think about it, it’s probably much more thorough than one can do by hand, right? You are also very good with figuring out percentages of dry vs wet, & hydration? Pardon my ignorance, what is your formula, how do you figure? We learn by reading, asking questions and experimenting.
*Click to enlarge
Hi Mitch,
Thought I’d chime in here just to mention that I used to go 16-18 hours because that’s what the original no knead recipe called for and it worked fine, but now it’s more in the neighborhood of 12 hours plus or minus a couple hours depending on the temperature and my schedule.
Angel,
What’s really interesting is that I have no problem figuring out Baker’s Percent and all the other technical stuff but meanwhile you are the one consistently baking these fabulous breads.
Baker’s percent iis really easy IF you are working in grams, which is what I do, because working in pounds, ounces, and fractions of ounces is totally madening. So, when a formula is given in US units I always convert to metric.
There are roughly 454 grams to a pound and, for simplicity I round that to 450g. A cup of water weighs roughly 240 grams. When you do Baker’s Percentage, the amount of flour use use is always taken as 100% and the percentage of each of the other ingredients is taken as the weight of any ingredient compared to the weight of the flour. An example would be best.
Using the weights you gave me earlier I converted the 1 pound, 3-1/4 ounces of flour to 541.4 grams (you don’t need that much accuracy but I do it just so others can see where I got the number. One pound = 450g and 3-1/4 ounces = 91.4g so that gives 541.4.
!-1/2 cups of water = 1.5 x 240g = 360g.
(360/541.4) x 100 = 66.49 or 66.5%, which is the hydration.
1-1/2 tsp of salt weighs about 9g.
(9/541.4) x 100 = 1.66% salt.
That’s what you do for all the remaining items. If this isn’t clear please let me know.
Mitch
Hi Eric,
Maybe it’s time to modify the video or at least put that info wherever there’s a recipe/formula for the NK loaves.
Mitch
Mitch…Thank you for the great math lesson. You have opened a whole new window for me in understanding about the formulas in bread baking, this also led me on a crusade to research Baker’s percentage, which I never new existed. This web page is pretty interesting if anyone else would like to learn: http://www.wildyeastblog.com/2008/03/22/bakers-percentage-1/
I know what you mean about not knowing the sciences behind a recipe, but succeeding. I feel that way about those “old time” recipes, which I’ve seen many people make (grandma’s especially) with success and don’t measure anything and bake in any old vessel!!!! My mother-in-law’s favorite baking vessel was a large frying pan with a broken off handle, she could make anything in that from cakes to lasagna. I’ll watch and try it with all my measuring cups and special bakeware and will never achieve the same results. I think if we have the knack with something we have to run with it. But, in your case now that you calculate the hydration values in my recipe, I bet you will have great results. Thank you again for your help.
Eric…I fully agree with what you have to say. I think that’s probably how I arrived at the 12 hour mark too!
Angel
Angel,
Hi. I just reread your detailed description that you so kindly provided and I have some questions.
You said: “Pick up the parchment with the dough ball and place the whole thing in the Dutch oven or La Cloche and into the pre-heated 445 degree oven for 45 minutes.”
Are you preheating your Dutch ovens or are they at room temperature when the dough goes into them?
Also, I once tried lifting my dough ball that had been proofing on parchment paper, but the paper crinkled all around the sides of the dough ball when I lifted it and remained crinkled when placed in the baker, so although the bread itself came out good the loaf had indention marks all around it because of the crinkled parchment paper. How do you avoid that from happening?
I have some my other thoughts I’d like to share concerning the process but I don’t have the time right now because this is a hectic day for us so I’ll get them down as soon as I can and hope you and others will respond once posted.
Best regards,
Mitch
Mitch…Yes, the Dutch ovens or La Cloche are in the oven pre-heating as well, so they are screaming hot when I place that dough ball in them. As for the parchment ordeal, I think it depends on the brand or quality of parchment. I learned by a terrible bread disaster with one particular kind, I had to spray with Pam with flour and dusted with flour in order for it to release the bread once baked, and did leave some crinkle marks. I now have a different quality paper which is really nice and strong and has some sort of coating that I don’t need to spray or dust with flour (I dust bottom anyway), this one does not leave indent marks.
My bread disaster was this. I ordered sheeted parchment from the internet and had great results. When I re-ordered and noticed that it looked & felt a little different, I called the company and they said that’s equal to the first batch, OK, so normally all I would do is sprinkle with a little flour before placing the dough ball on top of it. When I remove the baked bread from the Dutch ovens, I immediately remove the parchment then place on my wire cooling rack. Well, the paper wouldn’t release!!!!!!! It baked INTO the bread, bottom & sides….ughhhhhh. It became part of the bread, the dough just grew into it. So that was 4 loaves down the drain and 4 more in the oven awaiting disaster. I tried everything to try and remove the paper, wetting it, scraping with a razor, burning it, I ended up carving all the crust off the bread. So valuable lesson, all parchment paper is not created equal. Some will leave creases and some won’t, also I think it’s how moist your dough ball is, if it’s on the dry side (and you massage it lightly on the sides with flour before placing on the parchment) I don’t think you will get severe creases. I don’t know if anyone else had any similar incidents, it would be nice to know.
I am including a closer view of my bread, I really don’t notice any creases or they are not that visible. Take a look.
Angel
*Click to enlarge
Instead of gentle folding the bread for the second rise… I roughly kneaded the bread 10-15 times… I was surprised to see the nice open crumb… much easier to work also. the smaller in diameter loaf came out of the Walmart Tramontina 3 ply multiclad 4 qt sauce pan… beautiful pot but was not 8.5 inches as advertised… it was only 8 inches… I was total bummed that it was not the size as advertised… it was flat up the sides for about 2 inches… not quit as pretty as the other loaf… but it was slightly tall than the other
*Click to enlarge
PJ3…you were brave to do some kneading for the second rise, good to know that it really didn’t harm the bread, how did it taste? Were you happy with your results? They look good, I see what you mean about the height from the new pot. Looks like you got a decent amount of seeds to stick to the bread, did you brush with water or spray with oil before adding the seeds?
Angela
I have been approached by the farmer owning a local farm/market propositioning me to sell bread. Can you please tell me what you are charging the deli buying your bread and what size are your loaves? You can pm me at cillymoo@aol.com if you deem it appropriate. I appreciate your help on this one! Thanks!
Angela…
I am putting a thin layer of butter on the bottom of the 13 cup Rbrmaid bowl and then sprinkling the seeds onto the butter… then I drop the top of the loaf into the bottom of the bowl… then I actually sort of pour the bread from the bowl into the dutch oven… so now the bottom of the bowl becomes the top when in the dutch oven… could you make heads or tails out of that
Tastes GREAT… turns out GREAT… and no I was not happy with the results ie (looks of the bread) from the Tramontina Pot… I did not like the looks of the flat sides on the bread I think I am gunna take the pans back to Wally world… I have looked and looked for a pot that was 9″ in diameter but alas I had no luck at all… so bummed
I perfectly understand what you did. I like your idea of the butter with the seeds, I will try that sometime. Most likely you will find your pot when you aren’t looking for it. This time of the year the stores are loaded with all kinds of bakeware, you may get lucky.
I made the parmesan olive loaf last weekend. I enjoyed it very much. I adjusted the quantity of cheese from 7 oz. to 5 oz. because my local cheese company sells in 5 oz. quantities. I also used 3 C bread flour with no wheat flour (didn’t have wheat in my pantry). I look forward to making this bread again this upcoming weekend.
*Click to enlarge
looks very moist and delicious! Good work.
Nice, Bucky! I need to make this again. It’s been too long.
is purified water Spring water?
is it okay to make the pretty slashes on top right before baking? thanks so much for this website. cant wait to ake the olive cheese bread.
Ihave a rumptopf cooker and next time I will put all the dough in it.
thought I could make two but my dough was so wet, the “round
one (basket) just never did get the rise I wanted.
Have you ever added in veggie purees to the dough? If so, in what proportions? I’m imagining a butternut squash no-knead bread, for example.
Hi Gang,
I am looking for a good sour dough pumpernickel recipe.
Do any of you out there in Bread-land have one? I have supplies, culture, pumpernickel flour so I am ready to bake.
Thanks
Howie
*Click to enlarge
There is a new book out from the guy who created the no knead method. It is “my bread” by Jim Lahey from the Sullivan Street Bakery in NYC. It is a very nice book and has many variations on the no knead method.
Jim Lahey Book
I just looked at a free recipe on the Sullivan Street Bakery website and at the reviews on Amazon and except for the recipes the book provides it doesn’t seem that it has anything new to offer that’s not already provided on this site by Eric and the other wonderful people here. If you have a personal reason to buy the book by all means do so but IMHO it doesn’t appear you’ll learn anything new from it as far as technique is concerned.
Howie,
I haven’t tried this but you might find it worthwhile.
http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/sourdough-pumpernickel-bread-recipe
Mitch
Mitch. I think that’s an unfortunate comment because Jim Lahey is one of the people that introduced No Knead bread to the world in the first place. Granted, Jim did his introduction in a very public way through a cooking show, and it is possible to get a lot of free info on the Internet about bread baking, but I really don’t think such a review is appropriate here.
Regards.
JeffB.
I am only responding because you apparently found it necessary to write something to criticize me and impugn my character in the process. Why is it that there seems to be some people on virtually every forum who apparently cannot wait for an opportunity to criticize what someone else writes?
I am well aware that Jim Lahey is reputed to have been in the forefront of the no knead method. I did not tell anyone not to buy his book and I made it a point of saying that “If you have a personal reason to buy the book by all means do so . . . ” The personal reason I referred to was primarily meant for people who wanted to support one of the persons (or the person) who introduced the no knead method to the rest of us, or for any other personal reason for that matter.
But I also was stating the obvious, based on what I had already observed, which was that “it doesn’t appear you’ll learn anything new from it as far as technique is concerned.” Particularly because the technique is so very simple to begin with. If one wants to buy it for the recipes contained therein, that is another personal reason for doing so.
That is not slander, it is a statement of fact. In this economy people should know what they are spending good money for and it doesn’t seem to me that a review of a no knead bread baking book is inappropriate on a site that is primarily dedicated to no knead bread baking.
I wish the author great success with his book and I’m sure that it will benefit many people who are unfamiliar with the no knead method. But that doesn’t change my opinion about what I wrote.
Eric,
If you find that this response or what I previously wrote is or was inappropriate please delete my comments. I will not be offended if you do. In any event I said my piece on this and and will not be commenting further because I don’t want this to turn into a you-know-what contest.
Mitch
HI EVERYONE, I GOT A PICTURE OF A ROASTED RED PEPPER LOAF JUST OUT OF THE OVEN, THIS LOAF WAS BAKED FOLLOWING ANGEL’S RECIPE AND INSTRUCTIONS, THANKS ANGEL…..
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HOOO, SORRY THAT IMAGE IS THE LOAF AT SECOND RISE STAGE…..HERE IS THE GOOD ONE….
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I’ve made a handful of the no-knead loaves and am having a good time experimenting with it. The cranberry pecan and seeded sour recipes on this site were awesome. My only concern/question is that all of the loaves that I have made have had what I would consider to be a perfect crust just out of the oven. Once I let it cool down for an hour, the crust seems to soften and be less ‘crusty’ so to speak. The inside of the loaves seems perfect, but I am wondering what I could do so that the crust doesn’t soften up during the cool down? Any ideas?
Rebecca…you asked about adding vegetable purees into the dough. I did add homemade tomato puree in lieu of most of the water. It’s been a while, but I think I added a small amount of water. As you mix it in see if you think it needs the water. Give it a try you never know what the results will be, you may be pleasantly surprised.
Samuel…very nice, the roasted red pepper bread looks great! Bravo. Bet it tasted good too.
Marsha…I have the same results with the crust. I thought it was because of the moist ingredients that we add to the dough? Whatever the cause, before serving I pop the bread back in the oven to crisp up, that usually does the trick for me. In a comment above from Jeff B on Sept. 16…I suspect that bread is like glass in that it needs annealing. If one used a gradual temperature decline annealing as the bread cooled, there would not be the softer more moist crust after cooling. The quick insert in to the oven before cutting does crisp up the crust. Probably easier than rigging up an annealing oven that slowly drops the temp.
I think he is correct, it works.
G’day from down under
I was recently told about this method of making bread and was intrigued at how easy it seemed. A little research on the web gave me the basic recipe and indeed supported my friend’s statement that it was quick (apart from the proofing that is). Unfortunately I didn’t have quite enough flour so I have added some self raising flour to make up the correct quantity. I decided not to adjust the quantity of yeast.
I’m now at hour 14 and the dough it looking and smelling good. I must admit that all night I was dreaming of baking bread and I have spent all morning reading this web-site and getting all sorts of great ideas.
I can’t wait to see how it turns out. Though I’m not expecting great things as I have used SR flour. Even if it doesn’t turn out too well, I will certainly try it again – this time with the correct quantities of the correct flour.
I’m a bit concerned about the bread sticking during baking. Does anyone have any ideas on preventing this? I was thinking of putting baking paper on the bottom. Would this work or would it burn?
Thank you all for all your fantistic ideas. I’ve really enjoyed reading them. I’ll keep you posted on how my loaf turns out.
Katy
Well, I’ve done it and am really really impressed with the outcome. My girls love the bread and they have stated that she won’t eat any other bread now!
A big thank you specifically to Angel and Mitch who have been very helpful with the information they have provided. It certainly made my first bread making attempt a successful one.
BTW using 1 cup of self raising flour didn’t seem to negatively impact the outcome. The holes were not as large as some of the photos I have seen, but I still really enjoyed the bread. THANK YOU
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Katy C…very nice first attempt! bread looks great and tasted good too. Did you use a cast iron Dutch oven or La Cloche? Doesn’t look like you had any kind of sticking problem, you really shouldn’t if you are using the cast iron or clay bakers that are pre-heated. If you are concerned, for the second 2 hour rise after you form your bread into a ball you can place it directly on parchment paper (depending on the quality of the parchment, you may have to oil & flour the paper) and into a bowl. Once risen, take the whole thing, (dough ball on parchment) and put in your baking vessel. The paper will char but won’t go on fire. Good luck, it looks like you don’t need any help at all you are doing just fine and you probably have shed some light on the fact that we can use some self-rising flour in the mix! Always remember, a mistake is not a mistake if something is learned. (I know you didn’t make a mistake, you just made a substitution)
Angel
KatyC,
Your bread looks fabulous. You have every right to be proud.
I’m not sure what I did to help but thank you for your kind words.
Mitch
Well, it is bread making time again and I thought I would practice making the Crandberry Pecan for the holidays. I wanted to try using kefir, made from my own grains. This time I used 1/2 cup of a nice creamy kefir to one cup of water and the 1/4c of starter mixed together. I used 11oz of bread flour and 5oz of white WW. I prepared the dough around noon yesterday and put it in the refrigerator. I took it out around 8pm last night and by 8am this morning it had risen nicely. The second rise at 1 1/2 hours was one of the highest I have had (the kefir addition?). Baked at 500 for 30, 450 to 205 internal temp, which took about 12 minutes for this bread. I am well pleased, can’t wait to cool to see what the kefir added to taste and the crumb.
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The kefir cranberry pecan bread has cooled. The crumb is very soft almost like sandwich bread, which is what I would expect with milk (kefir). The crust is thin and crispy. The taste seems to have a little less sourness to it compared to my regular SD bread. I did use my sourdough starter but perhaps the kefir had it’s own effect giving a sweet & sour quality. Anyhow, it is scrumptious and will not make it to dinner at a friends house on Sunday. I guess I will do another one perhaps pushing the kefir envelope to 5 or 6 ounces.
Wil
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This week, I thought I’d try to “roll” a no-knead bread. The stuffing I used was tomato, basil, and garlic. Unfortunately, there was too much stuffing, so I couldn’t comfortably add my grated parmesan cheese to the mix. Even so, the bread was good. Next weekend, I’ll cut the amount of the tomato/basil mixture in half.
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For you No Knead Bread enthousiasts who don’t have or don’t want to invest in a Dutch oven, I have been working with a very economical alternative.
I purchased a clay plant pot underliner, which measures 8.25” at the bottom and a stainless steel salad bowl measuring 9.25” across the rim.
I preheat them in a 450 degree oven and tip the bread in it when it has risen enough. The benefit here is, as with a cloche, that you don’t have to plop the dough into it but gently lay it on the underliner.
Attached is a picture with the result. This is a modified version of the NK bread with steel cut oats. I just used more whole wheat instead of white. I also use this contraption to bake bread using more convential methods, such as the multi grain based on the recipe in Nancy Silverton’s book “Breads from the La Brea Bakery”.
For me the big advantage of baking in a dutch oven, cloche, whatever, is that, for the same end result, you don’t have to spray the oven with water which eventually will cost you $300/$400 in repairs if you have an electronic ignition system for the oven. (I have first hand knowledge of that).
Happy Baking
Hans Leenhouts
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great site … thanks … my first nkb was sensational … even better toasted … my question is has anyone used a chinese claypot … they are much cheaper than the romertopf or similar … do you wet the clay b4 use?
PJ3,
I have a Bosch Compact that has earned its cost many times over. I am just about to order a Bosch Universal Plus from Eric in the next couple of days. My experience with the Bosch Compact is that it works very well but when you make the sourdough full recipe you are getting very close to the limit of the bowl to hold. That is why I am going to the Bosch Universal Plus.
Other than that I can only say that I have had absolutely no problems with my Bosch at all. I find that most of the comments about the Bosch mixers are that they last for years and years. One commenter on another website mentioned that she got the Bosch mixer her grandmother had when she was a little girl back around 1970 and was still using it weekly. That is 40 years. The new Bosch seems to have the same quality.
What I have been reading about the newer KA mixers is that the quality has really gone downhill since Hobart sold them. I read about people who have found they can only make 2 loaves of bread in the bigger ones. I can do that with the Bosch Compact – no problem. If they go beyond the 2 loaf limit with the KA it strips the gears since they are plastic these days and any stress will strip them easily. The older KA which Hobart made are about as good as KA gets and they get rave reviews. I know of people who sell the newer ones and buy used to get the Hobart quality.
My dad had a bakery back when I was a kid and Hobart was his go to choice for mixer. We had 3 of them in the bakery and never a problem. I wish I could find a small Hobart that would fit my lifestyle but with my apartment size and the weight of the Hobart it just won’t work out. The Bosch only weighs about 12 lb and is easy to store and move around. Even the Bosch Universal Plus is only about 12 -13 lb – big difference from the other mixers.
Hi Eric,
Been off the internet for months, but ISP offered 6 mo. of high-speed for price of dial-up, so now I can watch your videos! Can’t knead by hand, gave up kneading bread in my 25 year old Cuisinart food processor as it started to squeal (still chops veggies as quietly as ever, though). Then tried kneading with my rolling pin, which was pretty good, but after watching the videos I decided I must try the Almost No Knead Sandwich Bread. I am not going to lift heavy pots in and out of a 500 degree oven, so this seemed like what I wanted, a sort of sourdougish sandwich bread without the hassle of sourdough starter. Been there, done that.
This was easy and fun. Measured the stuff by weighing on my postal scale, but this morning, after it sat in my 64 degree kitchen for 12 hours, it was pretty wet and floppy. I had to be somewhere at 10 o’clock, so it was noon before I could try to knead it in the fold-up method. Had to use the bowl scraper, and finally just rolled the blob off the edge of the kitchen table into the bread pan I always use, a metal 9×5. Oven preheated to 425, then down to 350 when loaves went in. Didn’t get the spring I’m used to with regular bread, but it came out with a crispy crust, soft and chewy inside with lots of holes—very artisany for a sandwich bread! The taste is tangy, a teensy bit too much like beer. I think I will go more by feel than by exact measurements, but I definitely plan to make this again, probably cut down on the beer or use apple cider. (I had to find a convenience store to buy just one can of beer. Never bought it before, and discovered it comes only in six-packs and bigger in the grocery stores). I sent pictures by separate email.
I made a loaf of regular bread last week (store-bought yeast), but threw in a half cup each of chopped pecans and craisins. We loved it!. All gone, no pictures.
It’s great to be able to get on this site again.
Regards, Marilyn B.
OK, I could be seriously tempted to go the artisan route after seeing Hans Leenhouts’ setup with the clay bottom and stainless steel salad bowl top. My only concern is about lead in the clay dish. I thought there had been a discussion some months ago on one of these threads about the subject of lead in the clay, but I can’t find it. Can anybody help? Thanks.
Marilyn B.
Marilyn,
If you are concerned about lead in the clay dish, let your dough proof in another stainless steel bowl lined with parchment paper and after sufficient proofing lift it out of the stainless bowl using the corners of the parchment paper and place it on the clay dish. The clay dish I’m using is not glazed, so I’m not too concerned about lead poisoning. But that’s me.
Happy Baking