No Knead Bread Baking Method

it is important to remember that canadian all purpose flour has a much higher gluten content and therefore, it is not necessary to use bread flour.

when making the no-knead bread with whole wheat or multigrain..i have found that it works best when i weigh the flour instead of measuring. this gives a consistent bread. whole wheat is a much denser flour. i also use 2 parts allpurpose to one part whole wheat or to the mutigrain.

by the way robinhood mutigrain is a fabulous flour for bread baking

I agree, I use a 4qt Cast Iron Dutch Oven, $9.28 at the local Academy Store, and 500 is to hot,
450 is better.

I found to much water makes the 2nd rise spread out insted of rise and it never sets up. I used
1 lb bread flower and slightly less than 1 1/2 cups water and after about 10 trys got perfection.

I’ve been baking bread pretty much all my adult life. I’ve even baked bread in a dutch oven before. However, this method is the easiest and best tasting bread I’ve ever made. I say that grudgingly because I hate to admit that all the work that went into my previous loaves was not really necessary.

I rarely bake with yeast anymore. So I’ve only tried the sourdough starter method – exactly as your recipe. Tonight I mixed together a batch using 1 cup of sprouted spelt flour along with the 2 cups of AP. I’ve been baking a really good 100% sprouted spelt bread (not using this method). I’ll see how this compares.

I can’t imagine ever having to buy bread again. This is so easy.

Well, duh. I have a couple of La Cloches but used a cast iron dutch oven at 450 F. I used the La Cloche, as you showed, and my No-Knead is much better.
Thanks
Willard

I cannot wait to start! You make it look so easy. My last three loaves – three different recipes made with regular ol’ yeast, despite all my perfect proofing & kneading efforts – have not produced anything but over gummy bread. Interesting – never heard of the 2nd rise won’t work theory. Please please do start a recipes section because besides experimenting w/ different flours, I love adding spices, cheese, eggs, etc. to our breads here for variations, but am tired of recent failures. I look forward to receiving my order & putting this all into “effect”-ive bread making!

I received a cloche for Christmas and have not used it. Before seeing your information I had approached a local French bakery re: the cloche (as my husband had awful luck with transit breakage from other sources). The information that I received was to first “season” the inside of the base in the manner of seasoning cast iron; secondly, about 15 minutes prior to baking I was to fill the lid with hot water and let it stand, dumping when ready to bake. The oven temp and timing were similar to yours. Since then, I have been given a copy of the no-knead from the New York Times. And now I have viewed your video. I AM PSYCHED!

Question: Is my information correct as far as it goes? and, I am confused about the pre-heating (or not) of the cloche top. Do I fill it with water and cover the loaf (after dumping the water) at room temperature? or, do I preheat the lid with the base? Should I soak it before I preheat it? I REALLY don’t want to crack/break the lid. Help?????
Nancy

Made my first loaf a couple of days ago baking it in a 5-quart Logic C.I. Dutch oven. I did my final rise in a glass mixing bowl with a top diameter smaller than the Dutch oven. I placed the dough on a Reynolds Release foil square and then lifted it into the mixing bowl by holding onto two corners of the foil. Likewise, when I put the dough into the Dutch oven, I simply lifted it again using the foil corners and set it into the Dutch oven still on the foil. It worked great!

I had added a little whole wheat flour for flavor and a little more salt than the original recipe called for. The flavor was great but I did not achieve the crust which it should have had. I am certain it was because I did not bake it long enough with the lid nor long enough without the lid. Trial two is now underway.

One question: What is the purpose of the quick shaping and delay of 15 minutes before starting the final rise? Couldn’t the dough go into the final rise container immediately?

I have just come across your instructions for the no knead bread and intend to have a go, but I don’t have 70 degrees more like 62, so will the method work if I allow extra time.

Thank you.

I started the dough off last night, and this morning its rising and looks fine, I’ll give it a while longer before I shape it and will certainly let you know how it goes.

Cynthia

What is the science behind the 18 hour rise? I mean why 18 hours and not 15 or 12 hours?

Hi Eric,
Really I was just wondering if for some reason I had to end the proccess earlier than the 18 hours if that would ruin the bread.

I am doing a rye no knead today for the first time. It is using a wet rye sourdough starter which I fed yesterday before I made the dough. It uses 1 1/2 cup of both med rye flour and bread flour. Your 1 1/2 cups of water, 1/2 cup starter, 2 t of salt, 2 T caraway seeds and 1/4 t yeast. It has been in my oven with the light on all night and it is rising beautifully. I have a 5 qt Dutch oven and a mini baker from Pampered Chef (like a mini La Cloche) and have not decided which one I am going to use. I was not happy with the Dutch oven version as the crust was way to dark, bordering on burnt. I may try it again with the temperature turned down to 450 instead of 500 and see how that works. I will post after to let you know how my rye bread turned out…

I just made my very first fabulous loaf of no-knead bread! It was truly easy and delicious.
I did add 1/4 tsp of sugar because i could beleive bread would rise without any sugar to feed the yeast.
Loaf #2 I will follow your recipe verbatum!

Question: what or how does this bread dough rise, coverred up with plastic and unexposed to air particles etc?

Hi Eric-

The bread turned out great. I used a 7 grain mix to coat the bowl used with the final rise. It has given it a nice crunch to the crust. The crumb has lots of holes but is slightly dense like rye should be. I did this with a rye sourdough starter and a slight amount of yeast as a backup. The rye starter is fairly young so I just wanted a little reassurance. I am sure that this will be a repeat in the future. The only problem was it was SO wet I had a few problems with the initial folding but it obviously worked. If you have a place to post pictures I will be glad to put them up.

Rena

I have been lining a coiled proofing basket with Reynolds Release non-stick foil and placing the dough in it for the final rise. After it has risen, I move it, foil and all, to a Dutch oven for baking. This works very well.

My question is this: If I want to do a longer loaf in a LaCloche Oblong Clay Baker, what can I use for the final rise including the foil?

When I search for an oblong proofing form, what maximum length can it be in order to fit the LaCloche?

To Brian Avery:

Are you related to Mike Avery, whose name pops up now and then in the bread bakers group to which I subsccribe?

More important, I am both a abaker and a yogurt maker, hence I am expecially interested in temperature controls. What thermostat do you use?

Jerry In Seattle

My Notes on No Knead Bread

I made about 4 or 5 loaves of the No Knead bread all with similar results,
- dough was allways very wet, (used 1 1/2 cups water) …so the fold over step was just a big mess
- the second rise never really did much.
- loaves came out on the flat side, but crust and taste were very good

I then purchased the SAF Instant Yeast from you and used King Arthur’s Bread flower and had much better results.
-Not as messy after first rise,
-was able to fold over the dough and it came out much higher,
-second rise much more succesful,… very happy.

….Now if I could only get the dough to not stick as much to the cotten towel before I place it into the oven, …any suggestions??
Thanks!!

I find that a lot of practice helps in dealing with wet dough. At first I was very careful when folding the dough and it always stuck to my fingers. Now I just quickly grab an edge, flip the dough over and do the same with the other folds. Make sure the dough is on a well-floured board and your hands are well-floured. When flattening the dough prior to folding I usually have to re-flour my hands once or twice. Don’t be too fussy about getting the folds right or making a perfectly-shaped loaf or it is going to stick.

The only time I use a towel (linen – cotton might be more of a problem) is to cover the loaf for 15 minutes after it is folded. The towel never gets washed so is now saturated with flour. I have had no problem with it sticking but for the second rise I think a towel might be problematic. I put my loaf in a wicker basket sprayed lightly with vegetable oil and coated with bran flakes and cover it with a plastic cover that looks like a shower cap (available in grocery stores in Canada and probably elsewhere). The risen dough sticks a bit but if I carefully peel the cover off very little sticks. Rather than wash the cover I just let it dry, give it a shake, and the hard dough flakes off. If you are using a towel to line a basket make sure it is well-saturated with flour. Wheat bran seems to work best to keep the dough from sticking.

I have been making kneaded sourdough bread since January and no-knead sourdough bread for only a couple months. When I started I read lots of web sites and books and expected the road to success was to follow expert advice. I measured exactly, tried to control oven temperature precisely and followed all instructions. My biggest concern was preparing the sourdough starter and keeping it at a proper state of activity and consistency. I no longer measure the flour or water I add to the starter. I just know what it should look like and generally how often I should feed it. When I make no-knead bread I roughly measure ingredients and just add enough liquids until the dough feels right. I adjust oven temperature and the amount of time I leave the loaf uncovered in the oven so that the loaf looks right. If I smell burning crust the oven is too hot. If the crust is too light, the oven is too cool. The precision oven thermometer I bought has never had the intelligence to bake the loaf the way I want it. I am beginning to view recipes as necessary guidelines to be followed until one develops their own methods and a feel for what they are doing.

It may sound like I’m bragging (I do admit to having a feeling of accomplishment for what I have learned so far.) but what I’m trying to do is show newcomers to bread baking how fast you can come from knowing nothing about baking to making very good bread and having your own opinions on how it should be done. Don’t worry if things don’t work out right away. As someone pointed out, the mistakes are generally edible.

If I can make a reasonably successful loaf then anyone can. Just don’t give up. If you do then try again in a few weeks or months or years. I tried baking sourdough bread about thirty years ago. The starter grew well but the bread was about an inch high. You can’t do any worse than that and even if you have problems you now have the advantage of all the advice out there on the Internet and in some very good books on the subject.

You are spared the tedium of reading more paragraphs about my enthusiasm for bread making. It is time to bake another loaf.

Rick:
Your advice about using a smaller pot so the bread doesn’t spread out too far brought to mind something I tried with minimal success. Using a tile saw I cut the rim off a terra-cotta plant pot. The rim was just the right size to keep the dough from spreading and give me a nice, high loaf. I baked the bread on a pizza stone under my “la Cloche” lid. Unfortunately, I had to chisel the bread out of the terra-cotta rim. Then I tried wrapping parchment around the rim and that allowed me to get the bread out. The big problem I faced was getting the dough into the rim. I had to do it before the second rise (after the second rise it was impossible to get the dough in without it spilling over the side) which meant the rim had to go into the oven cold. I read somewhere that some people swear by the method of putting dough in a cold oven and then turning on the oven. I tried that. The first loaf looked okay but after removing it from the oven the beautiful crust slowly collapsed. The next loaf I baked longer but I found the crust to be thinner and otherwise not as nice as the crust of a loaf that went into a hot oven. I like the free-form loaves baked with no restraint from spreading but sometimes I’d like to have something a little higher for sandwiches. I think there is room for experimentation. The terra-cotta rim never got hot enough to make a nice crust. Perhaps something like a springform pan would work. I suppose I could look for a properly-sized dutch oven but I like using my “la Cloche” baker. I’ve also thought of trying a larger loaf but I have my doubts that a larger loaf or even a higher loaf will turn out well with the no-knead method. I love this alchemy – turning base flour into golden loaves.

Have any of you tried other shapes and/or sizes for no-knead bread?

Maybe someone can answer my most puzzling question. How do you manage to wait for the bread to cool before you cut it? I NEED to have that first crusty piece NOW.

Brian Avery

When the temperature is turned down at night how do you keep the dough at room temperature? Ans: You take it to bed with you!!
The NYT article/video says it can be made by a 4 year old.
Here are the grandkids making the bed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQQOePl4P_4

I love the recipe. I made 2 loaves this weekend at 7000 ft. elevation. No problems, no adjustments required! Hard to believe that there was such a great outcome. Excellent final product. I am sharing with all of my fanatic bread-baking friends!

Thanks for the quick answer. They also mentioned the knob problem. But I ruined one LeCreuset dutch oven by consistently putting the stovetop temperature up over “Medium”…it discolored and made browning and deglazing difficult. That is the reason I called…I thought that oven heat might be different than direct heat, but they said it was very chancey. In addition, LeCreuset says to never heat the pan empty. I’m going to try Lodge or my grandmother’s old cast iron pot!

Thanks.

So I could also use a Romertopf to make bread in? Mine is an oblong-ey oval…not unlike my LeCreuset dutch oven. I presume I don’t soak it and put it into a cold oven and let it preheat…then plop the dough in it. Can they take a very high heat?

Hi breadtopia:

I made your fantastic NK bread a few days ago. I was unable to get your video to work, so I don’t know if I did things they way you do.

I mixed up the dough at 3:00 p.m. At 10.00 p.m. I did a gentle 4 way foldover. At 7:00 a.m. I did another gentle foldover. At 11:00 a.m. I lined my Italian Clay Baker with parchment paper – this is perhaps unnecesssary, but I like easy clean-up – and carefully poured the NK dough into my Italian Clay Baker. I tipped the Baker up and down so the dough would fill the entire Baker than set it aside to rise.

I put the cover on and placed it in a *COLD* oven (as the Bakers directions say to do) and set the oven temp. to 500 degrees. I baked it with the cover on for about 25 minutes, then removed the cover and baked until the internal temp. of the dough reached 210.

The bread was absolutely beautiful. It was very holey, high rising and perfectly formed because the Baker gave it structure. In other words – just perfect.

Just curious about the salt you use. I use kosher salt in the kitchen and I know that it is less dense than table salt. So usually the volume of kosher salt needs to be higher to substitute for table salt. What kind of salt are you using in the recipe? Have you used kosher salt? If so, what volumetric measurement are you using for it?

Thanks!

Eric, your site is just absolutely great! You are doing a great service for home bakers. Many thanks!

Ok, I just followed the no-knead method and made the absolute, hands down, best bread of my (limited) bread baking career. The crust was phenomenal. The inside was flavourful and chewy – not many holes, but very light considering I used 100% wholemeal (since i’m on a health kick, and it’s all I have in the house). I used a bit less flour to compensate (next time i’ll weigh it to be more precise) and my trusty sourdough starter.

After the 18 hours, the mixture was very wet – much wetter than on the video, there’s no way i could have formed any sort of loaf from it – so I folded in a bit more flour before the proofing. I don’t have a La Cloche, so I used a cast-iron skillet with an up-turned pyrex mixing bowl on top. It worked in a pinch, and gave me a spectacular view of my crust forming! But i wouldn’t recommend it, as it was difficult and slippery to handle, even with my welding gloves. The bottom of the bread did start to blacken so I baked for only 10mins @450F – maybe I need to cook at slightly cooler temp, on the black skillet?

Second time around… even better than the first! This time I used half whole grain, and half Bob’s Red Mill 10 Grain Bread Mix. I took the shortcut and just folded it a few times in the pot, sprinkling a little cornmeal around and under it. It even had holes this time!! Still a bit burnt on the bottom using the cast-iron skillet @475F – time to get an alternative baking vessel.
Thanks, keep up the good work!

Rosemary

Does anyone have experience with Brazilian flour ? The bread crust is excellent but the crumb… It looks a little like a consistent gelatin. It’s not white like the bread from the bakeries and it’s a little shiny/glossy. I tried with 60%, 65% and the rsult seems to be the same. With 65% of hydratation I have more large holes, but still not like the photos in this site. Any clue/tip ?

Thanks,

Not sure but seems that it’s cooked. I bake the bread between 220-230C using a ceramic pot. Should I try with a lower temp ?

I think you are right. I just baked one loaf at 200C for a longer time and the crumb seems to be much better. The crumb is a little “white” now.
At 220C the crust become brown faster and maybe this is the problem.
And yes. It’s wheat flour.

Hi Eric,
I made a great loaf of the “holy grail whole wheat” today, and want to make the “basic yeasted no-knead method”. How can this recipe be adapted to a regular loaf pan? I don’t possess a Dutch or French oven, nor La Cloche.

How’s about a 2 qt round, covered pyrex bowl? If so should the temp still be 500d? I just don’t want to spend 50 bucks or more for a lecreuset, or la cloche. Charlie at Cmebrewcoffee.

I tried a white covered pyrex dish, and it didn’t work very well.
I found a cast iron ‘beanpot’ – like the kind cowboys cooked over the fire – and that works great. It cost me about $15.

I just received the instant yeast from you. Only the regular rapid rise yeast was available anywhere in this area (Melbourne FL).
I made the NK bread per your recipe with all white bread flour but chickened out on the 500 F and baked at 450 F. I used a clay pot. The result at each stage was just like in your video and the texture and taste are excellent. The crust was a very nice golden brown. This was more acceptable to me than the apparently very dark crust in the video. I already have the second loaf proofing with some whole wheat flour this time.
I think I will be disposing of my bread machine! By the way I could play the 6 min. video OK but the 12 min. video will not load?

Hi Eric – Just wanted you to know how excited I was to receive the La Cloche bell, proofing basket and the wisk. I just couldn’t wait to start baking. It is now so simple when you have the right tools. My counter was always a mess and I could never find the right article to rise the dough. The bread came out perfect, now I can’t wait to use the sour dough starter. Unfortunately, I can’t make the bread too often since I have a naughtly diabetic hubby, you know how that is!!! I found that using the LeCreuset makes the bottom crust much too hard, no matter what temperature I baked it at, now I’m happy again!!! By the way the video problem must have been fixed since it is now working. Also it is pretty cool that you sign the order forms, it feels as though I made a new friend. Thanks again Mafalda

I use sourdough starter in my no-knead bread but whatever method is used this bread is open for experimentation. Try adding grated cheddar cheese and jalepeno slices (or diced or however you like). Quantities or kind of cheese are not critical. Just suit your own tastes. I loved this bread but I thought it could use a little more jalepeno (I used one). My latest loaf included a fully-ripe red jalepeno and a green one, cheddar cheese and a bit of rosemary. I was in a cooking mood today and ate so much I had no room for the bread. I’m looking forward to slicing into it tomorrow. It’s great with fresh garden tomatoes. By the way, I make my bread with (generally) about half white and half multigrain flour.

Ok, Yesterday i did mixed the dough and because im late in the office its resting for more than 18 hours approx 21h and its the first time I’m doing it that way…i will do some pics and if i suceed i will mail you back Eric! Is there a way to have the dough after resting in the fridge for later use? (to have always fresh bread at home..) thanks again

Order arrived, made my first loaf and everyone loved it. . . great crust, good flavor and texture. Now, how do I store the leftover to preserve the crisp crust. . . paper bag on the counter, refrigerte in a plastic bag, freeze. . . Thanks for your help

Hal Weitzel

Hi, I’am curious about something. How do all of you work and still manage to make this bread? I have taken the ingredients to work with me on my last day of the week, mixed it together, taken it back home, and baked it the next day. But seriously, has anyone figured out how to make this workable for those who work Monday thru Thursday, 9-5?

By the way- the loaves I made are wonderful! Thanks Eric for this website!

Thanks,
Debbie

Thanks Rosemary and yes, it does help. However, I would really like to have the option of having bread at various times during the week. After my earlier posting I was reading where someone talked about putting the dough in the frig. This might help one be more in control of the situation, rather than being at the doughs “beck and call”- if you know what I mean. Have you every tried that?

Debbie

I have tried the oatmeal and olive loaf. Both are very good. The oatmeal is especially good for toast. Steel cut oats can be purchased on Amazon if they are hard to find at a store. I was able to buy them at Costco in the Seattle area.

A couple of things:

1. A round 4 quart crock pot insert works great. While their lids are not oven proof, you can simply use a cookie sheet or foil for the covered portion of the baking. For a larger loaf, I’ve also used 1.5 times the ingredients in an oval 6 quart crock pot insert, again with great results.

2. The discussion about measuring flour in your longer video is interesting, but I wonder about its significance. In the original Bitman video, he doesn’t seem too fussy in measuring his flour. Additionally, I have often wondered how the authors of other bread recipes have measured there flour when creating their recipes – did they weigh it, sift it, or just scoop it out?

I just made my first loaf following your recipe. Wow!! The best bread I ever made and I’ve made some pretty good stuff.
I have an oblong La Cloche and I was going to order a proofing basket for that. But I needed one right away so I could roll the dough into the hot baker. I just happened to have a plastic celery keeper which is now a proofing basket.

Thank you so much for the videos and all your great instructions.

Eric, I need help. I’ve been making good bread following your No-Knead. The crust is my problem. It is so crispy when it is just out of the oven, then the next day it is soft. Is there a way you keep your crust from doing that?
Thanks in advance, Betty

Thanks for these fantastic videos that are SO instructive! Helped a lot really!

Hello Eric,

I’ve successfully made a few loaves of the no knead bread and have success each time. I added some cheddar cheese & green onions to one loaf that turned out fantastic.

You’ve got a great website and I have learned a lot from it. I can’t wait to purchase some of the products you are offering.

Thanks a million!
Shelly

I can’t wait to try this NK in my dutch oven, but what about greasing it?? Nothing was said about greasing the kettle first…..won’t the dough stick??

Want a special, unhealthy treat? Try bannock. Normally bannock is made with flour, baking soda, salt and water. I had some very active sourdough starter so I thought I would try that. I added salt (about the same ratio of salt to flour as in any bread recipe), mixed in enough flour to make a kneadable dough, kneaded for a minute or so just to mix the ingredients thoroughly and set it aside for about an hour and a half. Then I heated at least 1/4 inch of cooking oil in a frying pan until it was almost smoking. Pulling off small balls of dough, I stretched the dough to make thin circles and placed them in the hot oil. When one side was browned I turned it over to brown the other side. When done I placed the bannock on a paper towel to drain. The bannock is wonderful hot or cold with jam. We ate ours with home-cooked soup on a cold snowy day. Unfortunately there was none left to eat with jam. Some people just use bread dough when they are making several loaves at a time. The result is known as dough-gods or dough-gobs and is pretty much the same as bannock. I use sourdough but yeast dough can be used just as easily. Bannock can also be cooked over a campfire wrapped around a stick. Kids love to make bannock but they need help especially when cooking it in oil. If making it with kids I recommend the baking soda/salt/flour mix because it’s easy for kids to have full paricipation in the preparation. So, if you are lacking sodium and fat in your diet, give greasy bannock a try. Make enough so you will have some leftover for breakfast the next day and enjoy cold with jam.

Hi Eric, I just received my oblong clay baker yesterday and immediately went to work on my third round of no-knead bread. The first two were successful, but my earthenware baking casserole made the crust tough rather than crispy. Also baking at a high temperature discolored the white casserole, so I decided to spring for a La Cloche.

I haven’t eaten the bread that I just took out of the oven, but it looks beautiful! Thanks for introducing me to this great way of baking bread. I don’t think I will be using my bread machine much anymore!

Joanne

For the “purified or spring water” will distilled water work?

Hi
Just found your fantastic website!

I am preparing to live in China for 5-10 years to teach English. I will be going in 2009.

Chinese bread is yellow and sweet. So, I am wanting to learn to make my own bread. I will NOT have an oven and will only be able to get plain flour I guess. No hope of getting specialty flours.

I will be able to get a microwave oven and I will be taking an electric frypan which I plan to use as an oven.

Can anyone please give me good tips on making my own bread with the above limitations. I will be in a solitary position – perhaps the only westerner in a small city so the smell of bread baking will be heartwarming.

Kindest regards to everyone
Suzi

Hi Suzi,
I wish I had an electric fry pan to experiment with. I’m sure there’s a way bread can be baked in one. The maximum temperature is probably 450 degrees. If the bread is placed directly on the frying pan it would prevent the heat from circulating properly. The bottom would burn and the top would likely not become crusty. I think the bread needs to be baked in a pan raised slightly with a cooling rack or something similar so that there is an air space between the bread pan and frying pan. The problem then would be not having enough room for the frying pan lid. A sheet of metal could be bent into the shape of the frying pan so that it fits just inside the pan. The lid could be placed on top of this. If you can find some way of raising the lid while keeping the heat inside this method might produce results which would at least be better than nothing. Rather than making regular sized loaves you could try miniature bread pans or else just make buns. Then, if you have a high lid, there might be room for the rack plus pans.
Failing this you might try what I suggested in an earlier post – bannock or dough gods (gobs). Make a regular batch of bread dough (no knead might be a bit wet but you could try it), break of pieces, flatten them and cook them in hot oil. They may not be for the health-conscious but as a treat now and then they are wonderful.

Suzi, Are you sure the U.S.A electrical plugs work in China for your electric skillet to work.? I do know they will not work in EU. Just a thought.

Hi Linda
I would LOVE a recipe for English muffins. How do I email you please? Is it OK to leave my email address here? I won’t do it until I have permission.
Thank you so much
Suzi

Suzi:

Here’s the recipe for English muffins. They’re from the food network website and I originally saw them made on one of the Alton Brown episodes.

He suggested using tuna cans with the bottoms removed for the rings, but “modern” cans are made with rounded bottoms so that won’t work. You may be able to find the right kind of cans.

Another thought is to use a sheet of aluminum foil folded to about 1 or 1 1/2″ high, formed in a circle and held with a paper clip. I don’t know how that would work if you put a cookie sheet on top, but maybe you could just cover with another piece of foil. Also, don’t try flipping with tongs…use some kind of pancake turner or something you can slip under the rings. These are truly wonderful, and you can add raisins, etc. Linda

English Muffins

1/2 cup instant non-fat powdered milk
1 tablespoon sugar
1 teaspoon salt
1 tablespoon shortening
1 cup hot water
1 envelope dry yeast
1/8 teaspoon sugar
1/3 cup warm water
2 cups all-purpose flour, sifted
Non-stick vegetable spray
Special equipment: electric griddle, 3-inch metal rings,

In a bowl combine the powdered milk, 1 tablespoon of sugar, 1/2 teaspoon of salt, shortening, and hot water, stir until the sugar and salt are dissolved. Let cool. In a separate bowl combine the yeast and 1/8 teaspoon of sugar in 1/3 cup of warm water and rest until yeast has dissolved. Add this to the dry milk mixture. Add the sifted flour and beat thoroughly with wooden spoon. Cover the bowl and let it rest in a warm spot for 30 minutes.

Preheat the griddle to 300 degrees F.

Add the remaining 1/2 teaspoon of salt to mixture and beat thoroughly. Place metal rings onto the griddle and coat lightly with vegetable spray. Fill rings 2/3 full; cover with a cookie sheet and cook for 5 to 6 minutes. Remove the lid and flip rings using tongs. Cover with the lid and cook for another 5 to 6 minutes or until golden brown. Place on a cooling rack, remove rings and cool. Split with fork and serve.

A cookie sheet in the US is a flat pan with either no sides or very low sides used to bake cookies. You can use any flat lid or metal plate that will rest on the rings.

I don’t know if 1/2″ would be high enough or not…they’ll rise to the top and probably spill over unless you put just a bit of batter in each one for rather flat muffins.

When you reaad the comments on the food network’s website, some people found small pineapple or other fruit cans with the type of bottoms that can be removed. They’re too high, but if they’re greased well enough, the muffins will “drop” when turned over so they’ll still brown OK.

Good luck; your China trip sounds like quite an adventure.

Linda

Thanks for sharing your skills and knowledge…..

I did not find a mention of the nutrition facts on your site, nor in the comments. It is necessary for me to know this information. If you or anyone have the nutrition facts for the basic recipe, I would be very grateful.

We will have the equipment from you by Tuesday to begin our “no-knead bread” adventure.

Enjoy your day, do something good for the enviornment!

Jo

Elaine Cooper YOU are Very correct – Canadian All Purpose Flour Does have the Gluten Factor that American Bread Flour has – as suggested in this Recipe – Thank-You for pointing that out to us – I for one Appreciate Your input, for without I could have made a mistake in this Recipe – Thank-You agagin

Dave from London Ontario, Canada

Thank you Dave. Another wonderful tool for my “health quest”—–I foget most answers may be found on the web
Great Baking………..Jo

A friend of mine recently divided the dough into three pieces right after the post-18 hour folding. She worked each of the three pieces into a long roll and placed them side-by-side into a covered roasting pan…and out came three “baguettes”!

This got me into thinking…you could similarly divide the dough into 6-8 “dinner rolls”…my question is: if you divide the dough into the dinner rolls, shape them and let them rise the two hours…baked them in a covered roasting pan, would you bake them for the same 30 minutes, or would you bake for less time and/or uncover the pan earlier?

Thanks!
R

I am a no knead convert.

I found the site and decided to try it….figuring it couldn’t be as good as claimed….but worth a try as I am a bread fiend and looovveee artesian breads.

Boy was I ever wrong!! I have done the basic no knead, the oat version and my own cheese garlic version (I added a tablespoon of chopped fresh garlic and lots of sharp cheddar cheese, YUM!) and now am experimenting with many different multigrain versions (right now I have one proofing that is Whole Wheat flour, Oat Flour, Rye Flour, Oats, and Flaxseed)

What I have learned….I do not like the super brown crust, so I bake mine in a dutch oven at 450 for 50 minutes and it turns out PERFECTLY….light brown, very crispy and perfect.

You can use this method with ANY RECIPE!!!! I made up a recipe with whole wheat, soy flour, flax seed meal, wheat germ, lots of seeds, I can’t even remember what else, and it came out fine!!! I think ANY recipe will work. I have ALWAYS used 100% whole wheat and have certainly added various seeds or sugar, raisins and nuts and had no problem. I don’t knead bread any more….but now I have to find a better way than the dutch oven. Getting the bread into the dutch oven inflates it. I’m trying to figure out a way to put it on a baking stone and then cover it with come kind of lid to create that dutch oven environment without actually having the “dump” the risen dough in the bowl. Any ideas?

If you cut the water from 1-1/2 cups to 1-1/4 cups (10 oz.) the bread rises higher in the oven and has a much better texture. I find 12 oz. of water makes it a little too wet and results in a denser loaf. You wouldn’t think just 2 oz. of water would make a difference, but it does. Sometimes I add a tsp. of sugar just to give the dough a boost, but it’s not necessary.

Also I make the rising and transfer to the hot pan simpler. I rise it in a glass or plastic bowl, then after folding the dough, I put it back in the bowl to rise for 2 more hours. But first I grease the bowl lightly. Then after it rises, I can carefully pour it into the hot pan with no loss of gas.

Barbara, I have found that if I put my dough into a 9″ Springform pan that has been greased and floured and I place my La Cloche lid over it and bake. I start in a non preheated oven and 10 to 15 min before done I remove the lid and also spring the sides of the spring form pan and remove it leaving it sitting on the bottom part. The bread comes out fantastic.

Hi All,

I tried no-knead bread for the first time this weekend, but it never rose! Any trouble-shooting advice?

Hi Where did you get yours. I am trying to figure out where I got my plastic tub like yours? So I could get more sometime.

Dont have the dutch style pans…
I only have regular bread pans 8×4
Any suggestions to making this bread in those?
Mellissa in MI

Made It For The First Time This Weekend. Very Easy And Came Out Great. I Didn’t Have A La Cloche But Used The Insert From My Wife’s Crock Pot. Worked Great. Will Make Again.

Even if you don’t intend to bake bread in your cast iron dutch oven, life cannot go on without owning cast iron cookware. A cast iron skillet is a ‘requirement’ for baking corn bread and removing the bitterness from turnip greens. For the absolute best pot roast, only cast iron will do. Don’t hesitate to buy and USE several sizes and types of cast iron cooking implements!

You can tell I’m spending the morning and, perhaps, the rest of the day studying your site. Love it!

My next – and, hopefully, last – question of the day is regarding bran flakes. I see that you don’t offer them on your site and we don’t have a health food store. Our only grocery store (which also doesn’t carry bran flakes) is going out of business tomorrow. Can you suggest a mail order source?

Thanks yet again!
Ruth Ann

I have been making 100% whole wheat no knead bread, with seeds, nuts, raisins, all kinds of variations, and it’s wonderful. It’s about 2″ high. I thought I would try the “real” recipe, with white flour, to see if I got a higher loaf. I got a total flop!! When turned out onto the parchment paper for rise, it just spread. Does anybody have any idea why? THANKS

Yes, yeast is fine. Maybe it was too wet, but most people say it’s sticky/tacky dough, so that’s what this was. Certainly it wasn’t goupy enough to run. As a matter of fact, it rose well in the bowl, but then not on the second rise. Could I have done the first bowl rise too long? Would that make it spread instead of rise?

I’ve been rising on parchment sitting on a pizza peel, then I put dough, paper and all, on a hot pizza stone and cover it with a hot aluminum bowl that I got at the dollar store. Makes a perfect “dutch oven” and the bread has come out crispy and chewy. I just don’t understand why, when I finally used some white flour, it didn’t work as well at 100% whole wheat, which everyone says DOESN’T work!!! I have no problem with it! I use 100% whole wheat or mix in all kinds of stuff, like soy flour, 8 grain cereal, bran, wheat germ, on and on. Anything you can think of I’ve thrown in and got GREAT bread, but not this time. Very odd, don’t you think?

Wish I could write to you directly!!! Anyway, I’ve let it rise 24 hours on a counter where the temp is about 68 and had no problem, but not with white flour, just whole grains as I mentioned above. Is white flour different? I only really use it for cakes. I’m into whole grains, even make great chocolate chip cookies with it.

Interesting thought. I don’t use sourdough starter, just 1/4 tsp of yeast, like the original recipe. I used about 17 oz of flour (went over a bit), so then used about 1-3/4 c of spring water. SHOULD have worked. I have baked for years and can’t figure it out. Even if it didn’t rise, it shouldn’t have spread.

Hi,

I love this recipe. Just a quick question. Seeing as I’m single, I don’t eat an entire loaf in one day. What’s the best way to store the bread? I’ve tried zip-loc baggies and tupperware, but the crust becomes soft.

Thanks!

Scott

Scott: The European method for keeping cut bread fresh is to put it cut-side down on a wooden bread board (or counter) …this keeps our bread fresh for about 2-3 days while maintaining the crust. It’s the air hitting the cut side of the bread that makes it dry out and go stale.

BTW, stale bread makes excellent croutons and bread crumbs. I will even toast cubes of stale bread in the oven, tossed with a little oil and seasoned or herb salt, and my kids eat them instead of chips or crackers. Europeans also drop croutons into cream soups to soak up the soup (instead of eating bread on the side.)

Now I’m getting hungry!

I made my first no knead bread yesterday using a Braten Topf clay cooker. I have to say that of all the bread I have made using traditional methods, this bread was the BEST TASTING bread ever. It was almost like sourdough. My husband doesn’t like to eat bread! He had FIVE pieces. Another thing that struck me was how EASY it was. I followed the advice on one of the comments about just folding it a couple of times in the bowl you proof the dough in, before the final rise. It was fine. When I measured the temperature it would only register to 197 degrees, but was cooked through. I do live in Colorado at high altitude so that may make a difference. Needless to say, I am hooked! I am anxious to make other varieties soon. My daughter had a funny comment. Her friend thought it tasted a bit like beer- which she’s never had. She said if the bread tasted like beer, then she’d like to have beer sometime….but,since she’s only 13 she’ll have to stick to the bread!!! I took pictures, but don’t know how to send them to you. If you’d like to see them, give me instructions. Thanks!

Dear Bruce;

I found your comments on the 18 hour bread very interesting. I am going to do my first loaf this weekend, but I really like the idea of those clay bakers you use. You said it was #110, however they don’t seem to make those anymore. How large is the one you used? I found one that is 1-1 1/2 quart but that seemed too small.

And under normal circumstances (meaning a new clay baker) would I need to soak it first before putting the dough into it for baking?

Thank you so much!

Denise

Hi Lori and Denise:

Re soaking clay pots.

When my three clay pots were new, I would soak them without fail. However, the are now at least ten years old and have seen use at least once a week for bread. The bottoms have so much patina on them that I doubt that soaking would do any good. Sometimes I soak the tops and sometimes I just spray the top with a water spritzer before I cover the loaves to go into the oven. I find that the breads release enough steam to do the work of steaming.

Usually I proof my breads in the pots and put them into a 450 degree oven. I’ve never had any breakage problem. I have also put them into a cold oven, baking covered for an additional 10 minutes and, frankly, I think they do just as well.

Best, Bruce

Best, Bruce

I fashioned a faux La Cloche out of a clay flower pot plate with the matching bowl-shaped flower pot as the lid … and it worked! 8″ was too small for the whole recipe … will use 10″ next time (about $5 total). It “smoked” a little for a few minutes when pre-heating the first time but not the second. If concerned about food contact with the clay, use parchment or foil.

The pitiful thing is that I do have a La Cloche and a Dutch oven, but getting to them was too inconvenient when I came upon this recipe a few days ago. I’m actually glad because maybe this combo will open amazing breadbaking (this IS amazing!) to those who can’t afford other options. The bread had the crispy crust and rustic crumb I’d been seeking for years .. and a little extra salt in my second loaf solved my desire for more flavor. Yum and thank you!

Hi
Scott — how bout just halving the recipe.. should be easy enough. And that way you’d always have fresh bread.

Barbara — I usually make 2 batches side by side… 1 all white and the other is 1/2 ww 1/2 white…
I do use 1-2 tsp of vital gluten in each batch

Things I notices…
1. I let them both rise in oiled bowls.
After the 18 hour rise: WW doubled while the white tripled. The White batch was wetter than the ww.. The ww held it’s shape a tad better.
2. I proceeded to fold them over on themselves[right in the same bowl] and let them rest for 10-15 mins.
3. I then lined two bowls with re-usable parchment paper, oiled and sprinkled with wheat germ. In went the two batches for 1 1/2-2 hrs. at that time, both doughs rose approximately the same.
4. The oven… I used two different containers… for one I used a baking stone and took my 8 inch spring pan and removed the bottom and put it on the stone. This acts as a collar and prevents the dough from spreading.I do oil the ring and sprinkle wheat germ on that also. Ok, that one’s ready. for the other dough I used a homemade clouche[yeah know, flower pot]..
5. Preheated the oven to 450-475… After the risings time, lifted the parchment paper with the dough and placed them in the oven… After 30-35 mins, off came the covers.. Baked for about 15 mins more.
6. Results… the ww had more ‘oven spring’ than the white. They were both crusty/chewy.

I also noticed that the wetter the dough the final bread is more wetter inside[NOT doughy]just more moist, if that makes any sense. When I make it so the dough is more together and manageable and less wet… the final bread is drier..
Eric… does this make any sense to you.

thanks for all you bakers out there… and keep the comments coming, they are valuable.
jo-ann

I want to try this bread. I am thinking about getting a ceramic dish like this http://www.lecreuset.com/usa/products/guide.php?product_id=378
Would this work out ok?

Hi,

I’ve just received my proofing basket, and this may be explained somewhere, if so I apologise for asking again, but do I grease or oil the basket before I sprinkle corn meal on it?

Thanks.

Just thought you’d like to know that cutting this recipe in half works just fine. I made one filled with olives. An 8″ Lodge dutch oven was the perfect size.

For all you worried about your enamel ovens, just break down and get some good old fashioned seasoned cast iron. There is nothing better and you simply can hurt it, unless you dump water on it when it’s hot.

Hi Eric,

I know you’ve said that 205 is the right internal temp for eliminating the gummy crumb. Being at 5,000ft in altitude, would I make an adjustment for that? Water boils at approximately 204 here so would I subtract the 8 or so degrees and check internal for 197?

Has anybody tried this using gluten free flour? I have a friend who would do anything short of murder for a decent loaf of bread. LOL I’m thinking of trying it, but gluten free bread of any kind is a real challenge and I hate wasting the expensive ingredients you have to use. Any advice/suggestions/hints would be wonderful.

IF I try, I’ll use part white rice and part tapioca flour (that’s all that’s available without ordering by mail) and add some instant potato flakes and maybe 1T of instant milk and honey and also double the yeast since it’s hard to get gluten free flour to rise.

Hi Rick in CO, This is Lori in CO My bread is always under the 200 degree recommendation and is normally in the mid 190’s. I think the highest the temp ever got was 197 and the lowest was around 193 or 195. The loaves all came out fine. Have fun!!

Ken

Substitute milk – your choice – for about a third of the water used and this will soften your crust. This also has the added benefit of extending the shelf life of the bread a little.

Rick

I just discovered your website and videos …I am so pleased. I have my “no knead” bread batter rising right now…(the 18-hour rise)..and I just watched your video again…Now I’m a bit confused. Must I weigh ingredients? I didn’t weigh them; instead, I used a measuring cup…e.g. one cup = 8 oz…..as opposed to the 5 oz you mentioned. Will my use of the 8 oz cup ruin the finished product? If possible, I choose to use the 8 oz cup, as opposed to the 5 oz. weighed product…….Thank you ……Dr. Jane..

i wonder how do i solve the problem of room temperature for the rising of this bread (other than turning up the thermostat for the approx total of 20 hrs)?

our ave temp is 59 degrees inside the house. by the way, what temp is room temp?

i have electric cooktop and electric oven. i don’t have the new fancy gadget in my oven that proofs bread.

appreciate your help.

Hello again…Thank you so much for your response…I guess I wasn’t making the conversion….And, my bread turned out beautifully…It was a bit crunchy, so I did as you suggested, and put a light coating of butter on it, as it came from the oven….yummm. One other thing…If I don’t use a Proofing bowl, but instead use the towel, do I mold the dough by putting it inside the towel, and manipulating it in that way? e.g. do I press the dough while it’s inside the towel? Thanks again….

Hello…..It was difficult to explain…It was my understanding that I had the option of putting the dough in either a proofing bowl or on the towel….(this was after the 18 hour rise…..If I use the towel…do I wrap the towel around the dough…then squeeze, or knead, or whatever….and, if not….what do I do with the towel? Does the dough just lie on the towel…and does the 2nd rising take place that way? I don’t have a proofing bowl…I’m trying to find an alternative to the proofing bowl……..I don’t know a nice, simple way to ask this question…sorry…….Jane

Thanks for the clarification.
Another question – given the long time for rising the bread 18 hrs – can I make 2 batches of recipe, cook in 2 different ovens (unless it’s possible to do bake it together) and freeze the other loaf?
If it is possible to cook in the same oven at the same time – Will I have to make an adjustment on the cooking time?

I just started baking bread and it is SUCH A GREAT RELIEF to have a resource for these questions.

Amy, you can bake 2 as long as there is enough space around the pots for the hot air to circulate and bake evenly. They need to not be touching each other or sides of the oven. You can freeze the bread. Enjoy!

Patty, rapid rise is another name for instant yeast so you had the right thing. I read somewhere that Jim Lahey really meant just not cake yeast, but we’d have to ask him if that’s true. I know others have used regular (non-instant/rapid rise) granular yeast and it works, too (some add a smidge more .. I doubt it matters a lot when fermenting this long).

If you covered your dough so it wasn’t exposed to other things, I suspect you may be new to long fermentation in dough. That may be what you’re smelling, not yeast. Is that possible? I happen to love that smell and taste. Someone else will probably have a better idea. Nice pot you have!

Rick,
Your suggestion of adding milk worked like a charm. Just as you predicted, the crust was much softer and I’m still eating fresh, moist bread 3 days after baking.

Thanks for your help.

Hi – I am about to try making no knead bread, but only have a clear glass pyrex round baking dish with a domed lid. Will that do?

I have been making this bread for months, but never with the results that I got today. I used the basket for the final rising and the La Cloche baker and followed the method in your video.
Thank you so very much!

Eric

I just tried the No-Knead method using a cold rise. I made the dough with a sour dough stater and and immediately covered the bowl and placed it in the refrigerator. 30 hours later, when I removed the bowel, I could tell the sour dough starter was active while the dough was in the refrigerator. I placed the bowl on my kitchen counter and let the dough finish its rise for 2 1/2 hours at room temperature and then followed the rest of your no-knead instructions. The sour dough taste was excellent and I was able to bake at my own convenience.

Ralph

I stumbled across this site from YouTube (thank you YouTube!!) and my bread-baking is forever changed. I have always love earthy crusty breads- the kinds that fight back as you tear into them, but was never able to produce it in my kitchen until now. Until last week I bought bread at Panera- the only place in my area that has ‘artisan’ style breads. Never again. My first loaf of NKB was made in my beloved LC pot, but I was horrified at the mess on the inside and outside of my pan, so I searched for another solution. Having read about using clay pots I ‘engineered’ my own ‘cloche,’ with (so far) great success. I don’t let the dough touch the pot but use parchment paper as a liner. So far I have made a whole wheat/unbleached loaf, 2 steel-cut oats loaves, and a cheese/olive loaf made with some beautiful pungent PR cheese and kalamata olives- the loaf is rich and only tastes better the longer it sits. I rumaged through my freezer tonight and found some quinoa (never used it before in my life), rolled wheat, and raw sunflower seeds so I tossed them into the batter and the dough is now merrily sitting on the counter, working its magic. I have no doubt that the results will be delicious. The only ‘problem’ (if you can call it that) with the NK method is timing the rising to coincide with my work schedule- I like to have it ready to rock and roll when I walk through the door at 6:30 in the evening. I haven’t tried the refrigerator retarding thing yet- I may have to take a pencil and paper and a calculator and figure it out- LOL.
I have already made one ‘convert’ to this method of bread-baking, and he is spreading the word, too!
My next quest is trying a NK sourdough loaf. My starter I made from scratch was less than successful, so I have a new batch percolating. I just read the thread about making it with pineapple juice- I will have to try that, too!
Oh, and we call the cheese/olive bread “Chester Bread”- my daughter’s Rat Terrier, Chester, found a way to climb up onto the table, tear through the plastic bag and sample the dough while we weren’t looking. At least he has good taste….and yes, I baked the bread anyway!
Happy baking to you all and I look forward to learning from and sharing with y’all!

Hello, just wondered what a “dough whisk” is and where to get it? love all these posts

Hello again. At what point could I add sliced black olives? thank you

I have my latest loaf cooling on a rack, but I am thinking that perhaps I didn’t add enough water after the addition of the quinoa, rolled wheat, and sunflower seeds. The loaf looks rather dense and is heavy for its size- it reminds me of my pre-NK loaves I made in the past. It is beautiful to look at, but we shall have to wait a couple of hours to unveil the results. If nothing else it will make fantastic croutons. I am undaunted!
And Eric, I can’t wait to order the dough whisk and some of your sourdough starter- I am not having much success with getting mine started.

Thanks for putting up an awesome website. Being a homebrewer, the interest in baking seems natural. I’ve just put together a sourdough starter using the instructions from your website and also ordered a dry starter from you. I want to try both to see the difference.

If my bread comes out awesome – I owe all my thanks to you!

I saw a bunch of books on your website but was hoping you can recommend one or two for someone getting started.

Thanks again!

Thank you for the response! I’m going to tweak the water/flour content a bit as you suggest and keep trying. I’ll post what I did when I get it to work. Great website and videos; there’s a few things you have that I need to purchase as soon as I return from a short work trip (no worries for the starter, as my better half will keep it up to speed while I’m gone).
Cheers,
Jim

Barbara,

it is possible that baking the bread on a pizza stone is the problem. my bread needs the sides of a pot to keep it from turning into a thick pancake. the bread rises with the heat of the oven but the sides of the pot allow the bread to get it’s shape. this i assume is because the dough is so wet. i use a 2 3/4 qt pot.

joe

Thanks for your reply. It does spread as soon as it’s on the pizza stone, but the first two didn’t. I also have a hot “lid”, an upside down stainless steel bowl, that I put on it. You think that’s not enough?

Actually, we’re not big on holes and prefer chewy bread with a hard crust. So if I cut back on the water you think it might work? I’ll try.

Believe it or not I had a La Cloche and gave it away!!! I didn’t like that I had to soak it first and that the top of the bread often stuck to the lid. Now I desperately want it back!!

I can’t understand why my first few breads, on the pizza stone, with a stainless steel bowl inverted as a lid, worked out perfectly. And they were NOT on parchment so should have collapsed when inverted onto the pizza stone, but didn’t! Since I’ve used parchment to “ensure” that they won’t collapse, they all do! Any thoughts?
Barb

It was a Rompertopf (spelling?) and probably the wrong thing to use. Is La Cloche the only company that makes this type of round clay baker with a shallow bottom?

Hi … I’m one who uses an inverted clay bowl-pot (and clay saucer, both unglazed) – a la La Cloche.  I’ve tried to buy more as back-ups but they’ve been out for weeks now (WalMart).  I must also say there is a slight, uh, non-bread scent when baking – less and less as they’re used, so that may be off-putting to some (it’s not like toxic fumes, but you know the pottery’s in there).  I live alone and open a window (and heard there’s the same with La Cloche at first – which I have hidden away somewhere, brand new :/ ), so I don’t worry about it.
 
I bought a 4 qt. heavy iron Dutch oven from QVC to compare (plus I wanted oval-shaped loaves).   The bread baked in the $4-5 pottery combo is 100% equal to the Dutch oven one – crust, crumb, all of it (just bakes more quickly in the pottery).   Since I prefer to cut the dough in half to bake 2 smaller boules in 2 pottery combos, that’s what I do most often.  I do the second rise in a sprayed (and sometimes floured .. doesn’t make a difference, really) plastic 6.25 cup disposable Take-Alongs brand storage bowl … less messy than the towel.  Originally, I thought it might help shape the bread but it just spreads out, anyway, whether I place it carefully or basically pour it out.  It’s definitely more convenient so I’ve continued to do that.
The best one I baked fermented only about 10 hours … dough was very big,  bubbly and ready.  The second rise was spectactular, too.  I could NOT stop eating that bread!
 
Another experiment is that I had been using room temperature water (which works) but was more impressed with the rise when I heated it for 50 seconds in my high power microwave.  I checked the temp the first time but forget  just now what I was after (package should tell).   Most recent dough went from full and bubbly to collapsed on first rise by my usual 18 hours.  That bread came out pretty flat.  I’m going to check it much earlier now – and start going by weights for more consistency.  I’m usually a precise-type person but was loving the happy-go-lucky spirit of this bread.  While all I’ve made have been good, it turns out some are better than others and I feel the pull back to more precision – but still with this concept which is a HUGE winner!
Thanks, Breadtopia, for the great videos, info, supplies, and this forum. 
 
 

I’m not recommending anything that specific, just reporting my experiments and experiences. There is no magic number we can all count on 100% of the time – 10 hours, 12, 18 … the range given was 12-18 – some do less, some do more. My experience is that everything has worked – even the flattish loaves when slices (of small loaves made from collapsed dough) are shaped more like biscotti than bread. I just prefer the fuller loaves, as most of us probably do. These days, I prepare it for the second rise when it’s big, full, and bubbly and I feel like it.

We can all only guess what has caused your loaves going from good to flat. I think letting it rise much over 18 hours is a possible/likely problem. I’d shorten that first. Secondly, you may want to try a slightly less wet dough. I agree with making one change at a time to be sure which change does or doesn’t help. I don’t personally think the pizza stone is the problem since I’m using essentially that with the pottery saucer with excellent results. I prefer the bread without being shaped by the sides of a pan, but that’s personal preference. Because of the different ways I’ve baked it, what I’m 100% sure of is that a pan with sides is not necessary for a well-shaped loaf.

I think the best advice is Rick’s – to make detailed notes of weights of ingredients, lengths of fermentation and second rise, etc. until you get your benchmark loaf – then repeat that. Each of us has our own kitchen, oven, temperatures, measuring tools, water, flour, etc., to deal with. A scale and oven & instant thermometers are the only ways for us to be sure we’re really controlling what we can.

I’ve gotten a kick out of being less persnickety about all the details than with past bread making but I really would like to repeat that one recent particular utterly outstanding loaf consistently. The only time I was disappointed was when the dough had collapsed while fermenting for 18 or more hours – and I know the same dough had been big and beautifully bubbly earlier. That’s why I think your extra long fermenting may be one of your problems. When the bubbles are gone, they’re gone … I’m thinking collapse = flat loaf. It takes such a few minutes to mix up the dough, maybe you can find another time to make it. I measure out the dry ingredients into plastic bags to make it nearly instant to put together even at midnight … add water, stir, and cover.

I tend to look for solutions by exaggerating the possible problem to find where the parameters are. Is it better to let it ferment (outside fridge) for 5 days? 4? 3? No, it collapses and is worthless .. so try shorter period of time than with your disappointing loaves. Would it help the shape from flattening to add 2 more cups of water? No, it would spread out to be a goopy pancake .. so maybe try a little less water.

“but at what point or “weight” are you saying to bake” … sorry, I’m not sure what you’re asking here (I’ve never weighed rising dough) but, for weight, 15 to 15.5 oz. flour seems what others and I are using plus 12 oz. water (I use the extra 1/8 c. on NYT recipe … really because I’ve gotten too casual when mixing it and the extra water makes it easier – probably shouldn’t). But experiment with the suggestions from several, change one thing at a time, and keep meticulous notes. I’m sure you’ll get a great loaf again and then be able to repeat it.

Good luck and let us know what works for you!

Thank you Janet, for typing such a long and HELPFUL answer. I am typing with one finger in a cast, so have to keep it relatively short. I was just about ready to buy a La Cloche before I read your reply, and I’m going to try a shorter first rise first because I prefer to use the pizza stone if I can. As I think back, I think maybe the first few breads were made in a Corningware dutch oven, but someone said that could crack so I stopped, and perhaps, not sure, but likely that that was the beginning of the biscotti depth loaves. And yes, they are delicious just not high. So I will try a shorter rise and see what happens. 12 hours is a pretty awkward time. I wish this recipe lent itself to a refrigerator rise. That would make it much easier to deal with time wise. Anybody ever try that?
Barb

Dave, I agree that it’s a very forgiving recipe. In the video, we’re watching a baker who knows what consistency he’s looking and feeling for in the just-mixed dough and after the rises. Not everyone knows that yet. Since the issue with some is unacceptable inconsistency, that’s precisely (heh heh) what Rick’s good suggestions were addressing.

I agree that the NYT video is playfully nonchalant (I mix mine with my hands like Jim Lahey and giggle the whole time that he circles the bowl about 14 times … and, yes, I counted, in disbelief ). I’m finding it to work beautifully when I do close to what he does but human nature is often to push even slack boundaries without carefully noting what was changed to determine what may have gone wrong. Coming back to some form of center and starting again can help find and correct the problem.

Too much water and/or too long a fermentation (outside fridge) really does make a difference. How far off, how much difference in the end product, and how acceptable it is to each of us is the no man’s land of imprecision. I’ve baked this many times now and, as much as I measure the same way with measuring cups, I’ve experienced enough differences – and, especially, one loaf that was above the other extremely good ones – and, if I can replicate THAT every time with an extra step or two, I’d like to. That’s part of the fun of this experience.

So, last night, after writing the above, I got very precise myself and weighed – for fun. I know it’s going to turn out almost whatever I do – but there was THAT loaf recently …. sigh , followed by my first too-flat flop (too much water, almost for sure – I got cavalier after that great loaf – and lazy because it’s easier to mix with a little more water). I want the former bread from now on. Now I just put that weighed dough out to rise after only 8 hours … all big, bubbly and stringy … again, part of the fun of experimenting and learning where the parameters are. Some of us have toys (scale, etc.) and like to play with them so please don’t make too much of our trying to help those who aren’t yet consistently satisfied with their results. I’ve read around the Internet about some pretty eye-crossing practices trying to make this which are so far from the video and written recipe (not experiments, just not following instructions .. my sister is one who just wings things like this before ever following directions, then wonders why they don’t work — I’m the opposite, for better or worse .. learn precisely first, then experiment).

The one caveat I’ll add, though, is that if you don’t like crispy-crusted, big-holed country bread, this isn’t the way you want to make bread. For me, this is the holy grail after years of other experimenting to come up with exactly this! Vive NKB!

Follow-up … bread with measured/weighed flour and water (15 oz. and 12 oz. – less wet than I’d been lazily mixing, adding even a leeetle more after Bittman’s 1 5/8 c.) and only 8 hours fermentation (bubbly, stringy like video shows, etc.) is beautiful. Oven spring was back (last wetter dough baked flat) and the taste is still good – maybe not quite as interesting as longer fermentation or adding beer or vinegar (I’ve never yet done sourdough starter … one of these days!), but very few would turn their noses up at this, especially fresh from the oven (oh, yes I di-id!). Part of the reason I split it in half to bake 2 smaller loaves is to cheat and cut one open right away . Also the rest is a bit fresher in a separate loaf (but I’m mostly kidding myself since this doesn’t keep). More often than not, I give away the second small loaf.

Btw, I don’t mean to discourage buying and using La Cloche. I have one stored away and just looked for an inexpensive alternative until I’m ready to dig it out, hence the pottery combo. One of these days, I’ll buy the rectangle one – from here!

Okay … I’ll take a vow of silence for awhile now. :-X

Thank you Janet. I have written down 15 oz flour, 12 oz water, and will do it again. Another thing I forgot to say is that I use 100% whole wheat (I’m diabetic), so I’m sure there is less rise due to that. Do you think a TB of baking powder would help?
Barb

Oh, Barbara … the 100% whole wheat is quite probably the main reason why you’re getting flat loaves. The most I’ve been able to succeed with is 1/3 whole wheat (which I always use), though I know more is possible. Here’s a link to someone who worked out 100% WW NKB (hope this is kosher to do here):

http://www.sugoodsweets.com/blog/2007/03/no-knead-wwbread/

Let us know how it goes, okay?

Great suggestions from breadtopia.

Hi, Sandy .. you’ll love the videos! Ooo, I’m jealous of the rectangle La Cloche you ordered.

Actually, I don’t think the whole wheat is a problem at all. The first rise is high and bubbly. Like I said, the first few loaves were high and perfect, and they were made in a corning dutch oven. Then someone said not to use it, that it could shatter, so I stopped and started using the pizza stone with a stainless steel bowl cover, and that’s when the dough spread out when put on the stone. I think it might be hydration, or it might be that the dough needs to be so soft it needs the containment of some vessel. I’m going to try a dryer dough before I buy a La Cloche. Bread isn’t whole wheat when it’s 1/3, in my opinion. Whole is 100%.

I have to admit I don’t make just plain bread. It’s either full of various kinds of seeds (pumpkin, sesame, sunflower) or raisins and nuts or something. I made one with apple juice instead of water, raisins and nuts and cinammon and it was delicious if not high. I’ve used wheat gluten and all kinds of extra stuff to help the wheat, and that doesn’t work if it’s on the stone. I read somewhere about adding a TB of baking powder and just wondered if anyone had tried it. It’s probably the stone. I was just wondering if anyone on here baked their bread on a pizza stone and had it work.

Hi, and thanks for a wonderful website! The pictures are simply amazing and all the bread looks incredibly yummy. My attempts at no-knead bread have been very disappointing. I live at 6500 feet and the dough just does not want to rise. Any hints for high altitude bread baking? I used a 1/4 teasp. yeast and some sourdough for my last loaf and the dough still just sat there in a warm sunny spot in my kitchen, doing nothing. And even 450 degrees burns the bottom somewhat horribly (using a Dutch oven).
Barb in NM

Dear Friends
In addiction to my info on last text, i want to know another somethings wrong that occured just now with me.
I hv done 5 loaves at same time. I done 2 on great size aluminium pans, and another 3 on small size aluminium pans.
What occured is the following:
I´ve took them off the over together, at same time. Then i could note that the great sizes breads where well cooked, with nice crust, but the smallest ones they had been overbaked with turtle crust and difficult to slice.
So, i want ask you. Is it really true that time inside oven differ, if you use different size pans?
I cooked all the 2 great sizes and 3 small sizes loafs together, but took them off the oven at same time, and the smallest turned bad, hard, difficult to slice breads!!
Help Me!
THANKS for all!

I lived all my “baking” life at high altitude so I know nothing else but I think I might try adding a bit more yeast and a smidgen of honey to give the dough some “incentive” for rising. My starter is doing great! Well, I guess I just have to experiment and see what happens.
Thanks for the reply!
Barb

Janet, what kind of clay base do you bake in? Aren’t you the one who got some kind of pot at Walmart? Doesn’t the base of a flower pot have a hole in it?
Barb

question!

somewhere and it may have been here i read that we can make NKB with diced garlic in the dough. i want to dice the garlic and incorporate it into the dough at the start. this would mean raw diced garlic would be in the wet dough for possibly 22 hours before baking. i’ve been told that the garlic, because it is in a water based atmosphere, might go bad.

has anyone had any experience along these lines? i’ve made olive bread the same way but the olives are greek olives and cured. the bread, with diced greek olives came out great! better than you’d ever buy in a store.

thanks for the help!

joe detrano

I have used 3/4 to 1 cup mixed seeds at the beginning of the 2nd rise when the dough is to be kneaded for 15 turns. This has been quite satisfactory Tried it at the beginning with somewhat disasterous results.
The seeds are a mix of amaranth, poppy, wheatberry, rolled oats, sesame, anise, sunflower, quinona, fennel etc.

I am also using an internal measuring thermometer to give me the times when the bread is done – at least 196F for long loaves, boules temp at least 206F. I have a large Dutch Oven and the boules have lots of room – so I have taken to using perforated French loaf pans for long loaves but must wait for the dough to rise in these pans before baking at 400F again with the internal thermometer. But then I use a bain marie to be heated alng with the oven prehaet, locating it in the oven bottom and dump hot water in before the loaves go in to get the high steam

Thanks for the videos as they have made the information much more useful rather than the staright recipes.

I agree with your views that these no knaed recipes can atke a lot of leeway and still prove out an exceptional bread.

Hello Eric. Here are some pictures of my latest attempts. I played with the recipe for a few weeks with not much luck. After finally getting the right tools, flour, yeast, the correct baking vessel, and all the tips suggested by your many readers, this is what is now working for me. 1 cup water 1/2 cup of milk is the liquid measurement that works best for me. I have used 2 cups white flour and 1 cup wheat with good results. For the second rise I lay the round ball of dough on a piece of parchment paper and set it in my LaCloche with the top on for the two hours. After the two hours, I slip the parchment paper with the dough off onto my counter while the LaCloche is in the oven being preheated to 450. When the oven is ready I then just again slide the parchment paper with the ball of dough onto the base of LaCloche, cover and continue the recipe. 30 mins covered and 15 mins uncovered. The loaf is perfect. I must say the LaCloche has made the most difference in my loaf, especially the bottom of the loaf. It does not burn! So, in essence I have omitted the two towels and the handling of the dough a second time. Everything else I have stayed true to the original directions. What a wonderful loaf of bread. I make one daily and give it away when I don’t need it for myself. Such fun. You must try it. I love the dough whisk. I love the oil sprayer. And you cannot beat the price of LaCloche from Eric, it is 49.95 on the Sassafras site! Have a great baking day and thank you Eric. Sandy in Fl, right now in NC

So it would need to be a vacuum canister then? Most bacteria need oxygen to grow, however there are still some that do not, so you would probably need to freeze it also… to be frank though, if you make the bread described here it is likely to be eaten before it gets a chance to go off! If it is too much in one loaf, maybe for just one person, make the loaves smaller…divide the dough and freeze or fridge it before cooking.

…or make eggs on toast for brekky and sandwiches for lunch…and some side bread with a pasta dinner… YUMMY!

Just a thought…

Rosemary…

Did you bake that in a clay baker with a lid? Is that a normal recipe size or did you double it? Looks like a larger than usual loaf size…but soo beautiful!

Rick in CO

GORGEOUS photos, Rosemary! I’ve been dreaming of the rectangle La Cloche (which I will eventually order from Breadtopia, too) and these photos clinched it. Um, does the plate come with it? (ha ha)

I don’t blame all those people for thinking you’re “da bomb.”

I bought a Universal Plus Mixer and am very happy with the ability to knead bread in it.
There are several No Knead recipes floating around that I would like to mix and knead to shorten the rising time (12-18 hrs).
Question is, how do I convert that part of the No Knead bread recipes. Is there something in the ingredients quantity that would change? And for how long would I let it sit before the shaping? Any ideas out there?
I intend to bake it the same way – with the La Cloche covered for 30 and uncovered for 15.
Thanks so much.

YES. I wanted to convert the No Knead bread recipes to regular bread
recipes where one actually does the kneading (therefore no 12-18 hrs initial
rising time). I am very new to baking breads and don’t know how to go about
this and can’t find an exact recipe for the Sun Dried Tomatoes and Cheese No
Knead bread in the regular recipes.

How short – well, that is exactly my problem – not knowing these things – I
don’t have an idea how short but ideally 3-4 hrs. I also don’t know in what
way the taste will be compromised if the initial rising time is shortened.

thanks. i’d do some experimenting.

First, thanks for providing a wonderful bread-baking resource. I visit here often to watch (and re-watch) your great videos.

I only recently discovered the NYT NKB recipe and my very first loaf was a huge success. I (like everyone else) was simply blown away by the artisinal loaf that came out of my very humdrum kitchen oven.

Then I discovered the Cook’s Illistrated (CI) variant. So I began making hybrid loaves: using the NYT proportions, but substituting beer for some of the water and adding the vinegar. I wanted to maintain the NYT crust/crumb, but add the CI flavor — and technique (using parchment paper). It worked very well indeed.

And then I felll upon a “greener” baking method: starting from a cold oven. This method doesn’t waste the oven pre-heat energy, and promised a bigger oven spring (one thing CI strove for in their modifications). It made sense: the warming oven allows the yeast time to increase their activity before getting hot enough to kill them off entirely.

The method I found said to start cold and run up to 450F for an hour and ten minutes (70 minutes). Well, being the hybridizer of recipes that I am, I chose to set the oven to 500F (NYT setting), and to uncover the bread for the last 15 minutes. This turned out to be a mistake: my bread burned a bit on the bottom and was mahogany colored in spots on the top. I pulled it six minutes shy of the scheduled baking time when there was a distinct burning smell in the air. I also bake with my Dutch oven on the lower-middle rack, closer to the heat source (electric oven).

I plan to try again, and when my instant-read thermometer order (from you!) arrives I’ll start taking “core samples” at about the usual 45-minute end time, and pull it when it reaches 205F (or thereabouts).

Now, different ovens heat at different rates, and lots of other things vary as well, but when I’ve got it all dialed in I’ll post again to report my results.

If you have any Preheated-Oven versus Cold-Oven experiences I’d love to hear them. Baking great bread while reducing my carbon footprint just seems like a good idea to me.

Oh, and the burned attempt also used 1/4 cup of the “Pineapple Juice Solution” starter in lieu of instant yeast. There were some great sourdough smells floating around (before it began to burn, anyway). That method for creating a starter worked just fine for me on the very first try — another kudo to you and your website/videos. (Note: I’ve also ordered your dried starter so I can compare the two.)

So, in summary, your recipes work, and work well. My modifcations are (mostly) successful, and have put me back on the baking track — and my brother, too! — and there’s always a tasty, crusty boule on my countertop, thanks to Breadtopia!

Tom.

I found the cold oven method by Googling with “no knead sourdough bread” and (I believe) the parent article is here:

http://www.sourdo.com/no-knead_sourdough.html.

Additional hits (which are probably clones) are here:

http://www.recipezaar.com/277860
http://hans.fugal.net/blog/articles/2006/03/17/noknead

And many more, which are left as an exercise for the interested reader.

I’m sure it will work, but I’m also sure it will require some tweaking to get it exactly right for your own oven. My first attempt was less than perfect (but then I didn’t follow the directions, either). And yes, rising the dough in the baking vessel is a boon: there’s no extra handling, no deflation, no dirtying additional containers/surfaces, etc.

Pour the dough from the mixing bowl into the baking vessel, let rise again as long as you like, slide into a cold oven, and fire it up. Enjoy your green bread.

Re the “greener” baking method, putting the La Cloche into a cold oven, it worked just fine. The bread was a little bit burnt, I think, at 450, 70 minutes, cold start, but it’s not a problem. Maybe 400 or 60 minutes would do it perfectly.

My question is oven spring. I research this cold oven start, and it’s touted as giving more oven spring. I made three cuts across to loaf to allow for spring, and I got zip, zero, flat out none. The cuts closed up and the bread went flat. I don’t get much when I put the dough into the hot La Cloche, if any, but the bread was totally 100% flat across on the cold start. Did I do something wrong? I’ve never had oven spring no matter how I bake, even the old fashioned way with steam. I’ve tried everything.

Bottom line: what makes oven spring and how can I get it?

Barb

PS One more question: When adding things, like seeds, raisins, whatever, why can’t they go in with the flour in the beginning? When it’s kneaded in after first rise, 15 turns doesn’t let it get evenly distributed. Can I put “stuff” in with original flour and yeast mix?

Barbara, my observation is that your experiments are getting further and further away from the basic recipe and method (both here and 100% WW site). Since the experiments are not successful at this point, I recommend that you go back to the very basic NKB recipe and technique and get some successful loaves under your belt before experimenting. By basics, I mean Eric’s great video here (and Jim Lahey’s on YouTube). As I recall, you liked your bread when you first learned about this.

Did you get the rectangle La Cloche for your 100% whole wheat bread (like I want!)? Did you try it first in a hot oven with hot La Cloche without slashing? In Jim Lahey’s video, I interpreted that the envelope fold (not your 15 turns which can deflate) is inverted for rising so, when turned out for baking, the folds will be upright … a la slashing. Maybe for now you could incorporate your healthy add-ins into a pesto or something to spread on the bread while you concentrate on baking a loaf you’re satisfied with.

I can appreciate that you seem to be a more spontaneous experimenter who prefers not to follow the details of directions (my sister is similar). When the results aren’t what you’re looking for (and what others are getting), I think it’s time to rein it in follow the directions again for awhile (then you can experiment again, based on success). I’ll remind you again that you did like your bread in the beginning when you baked it in a Dutch oven. You were probably following the proven recipe and method more closely then as well.

As for the cold oven method being green, unless I’m misinterpreting the meaning of green (more energy efficient), there’s only 5 minutes difference between 70 minutes green and the usual 30 min. heating + 45 min. baking. I tend to pull off a handful of dough for a small pizza somewhere along the way and bake that while the oven is heating up for bread. There are a lot of ways to make use of the oven during that 30 min. heating time.

If you do the green one again, I would suggest just baking it a shorter time to avoid burning (OR lowering temperature a little, not big changes in BOTH time and temp). Either way, check it for doneness earlier. My bread is done (205 degrees inside) in 25 min. and browned in 2-3 more. It would be ashes if I baked it 30+15. My instant read thermometer is invaluable to me for bread baking.

Best wishes,
Janet (aka Rach)

I know the original recipe is all white flour, but there is one out there with 100% whole wheat and some vital wheat gluten. Is anybody on here willing to try a whole wheat version and see what happens? It’s a lot healthier for you!
Barb

I’m not sure I understand what I changed. I actually used a terra cotta loaf pan with a lid, similar to a La Cloche. I tried it in loaf and in round, having both pans. What is wrong with that? Why would I want a metal loaf pan when the recipe calls for a lid?

I DID try the whole wheat one you linked me to. That where the vital wheat gluten came from that I mentioned above. Results in all are satisfactory but not spectacular, without much taste or rise in either. I haven’t yet done the beer because we have no beer.

Barb

This sounds WONDERFUL! I’m very anxious to see y our results with at least half, if not three quarters whole wheat. I guess that means the end of the overnight rise then. It would have to be a daytime endeavor to be able to knead it. How many times did you knead, how often, how much (a few folds, a full knead, what?). Thanks for your experimentation that helps everyone.

I just had a thought. Isn’t this sort of getting back to kneaded bread and doesn’t this show that breads rises better when kneaded?

Barb

Is this during the first 18 hour rise or the final rise?
Barb

HIGH ALTITUDE BAKING

Eric, here is what I have found during my many experiments since last emailing you:

Best bread for dense, sourdough loaf – add scant 1/2 teas yeast 1/3 cup starter. Follow rest of your directions (may need another 1/2 cup of flour). Knead moist dough briefly. Place in LARGE bowl, cover with plastic wrap, put in 80-100 degree oven. Let rise for 4-6 hours. Remove and fold, do not let rest, place immediately in rising basket. Cover loosely with cloth, back in 80-100 degrees for about 1 1/2 hours. Check to see dough has doubled. Preheat La Cloche and oven – 500 degrees. Follow rest of your directions. I have also done this with 2/3 WW and 1/3 unbleached or bread flour. Works equally well.

The following came as a surprise when I was unexpectedly called into town…I live in the mountains…so I was gone all day. I started my loaf, as above and when I returned home after nine hours, the dough had risen to the top of my very large bowl. I decided to fold it and put it in the La Cloche immediately as over-rising at high atlitude seems to “kill” the loaf. I let it rise for about 2 more hours, it was almost twice as large as my usual loaf, and left it in the oven while I began the preheat with the dough already in the cooking container. At 30 minutes into baking I checked the loaf and it was white, so I left it in for 10 minutes more, covered, and then removed the cover and browned it for 15 minutes at 450 – your recommended. The bread was light and much more like a traditional sweet French consistency but with a mild sour-dough taste. My friends loved it for a change of pace.

I can’t thank you enough for your suggestions regarding adding some yeast and shortening the rising time. I think the kneading also helps and as I have a heavy-duty Sunbeam mixer, I let it do the work for me.

hey!

i must be doing something wrong – i’ve tried the recipe twice and the dough is just an ooey-gooey mess. its like wrestling the blob to get it into anything thats sort of a shape. when i try to fold it over it just seems to ooze around and it sticks to everything like taffy! ick!

when i manage to get it into the pot, its almost overbaking and is on the flat side. i am using white lily flour, well water, instant yeast and a honking 5qt cast iron dutch oven. i have seen where folks are a bit happier with a smaller container, such as a pyrex casserole dish, which i’m hoping will help with the almostburnt problem :>

any ideas why its so sticky? i have been very careful with measuring (especially the second time), could it be my humidity? i’m in the mid-south, where we have both kinds of weather, hot and humid :>

any help is appreciated! love the site and videos!

Hi, Sandy. I’m in North Carolina and can get no bread to rise if I use my well-water. Maybe that is your problem. Try spring water. I buy the gallon jugs and Walmart and I get a great rise.

Another consideration is to change your flour: White Lily has a lower protein content than most other all-purpose flours, and a lot less protein than bread flour. It’s the protein that (in contact with water) develops the gluten, and it’s the gluten that traps the CO2 produced by the yeast … more gluten, more rise (up to a point, of course).

Alternatively you could “spike” your dough by adding a teaspoon of vital wheat gluten directly, and continue using White Lily. But flour’s cheap: try using bread flour.

I tried Eric’s suggestion. It works. I mixed bread Friday around 6 AM, put in refrigerator until 9 PM, then took dough out of refrigerator and let rise overnight until 6AM Saturday. Then did final 1.5 hour rise, etc. Bread was very good.

When the dough came out of the refrigerator, I left it in its same stainless steel pan, which was cold. Next time, I will put dough in a room-termparture bowl, which will promote better rising.

Paul

Sandy, I would think that humidity has a lot to do with it, I have to add almost quarter cup more water to get the consistency showed in the video. I live in a very dry climate, humidity barely passes here 15%. I made my 3rd perfect loaf and I started out with the exact quantities posted in Eric’s recipe and from then I just adjusted the water to it. You might want to start out with the dry ingredients as per the recipe and just add 1 cup and a 1/4 of water as a starting point and adjust the water from there on. Good luck.

Tom. wow. thank you for sharing this video. now I am really confused. defies everything we have been taught. when you take it out of the bowl after its initial rise, we punch it, slap it, get all of the air and bubbles out of it. He tells us not to do this! Treat it gently. I’m confused here. lol (what else is new)

Sandy in Fl

Great site and great bread! I just made the pineapple starter as I have made about 30 loaves of NK bread and figured I should evolve into the next step! I have also been experimenting with adding whole grain blends with great success. I do have a question, though….

I first baked my bread in a terra cotta oval baker which is glazed on the bottom half and it works fine. I bought an enamel cast iron dutch oven but preferred the results from the clay but I suppose I haven’t given it a fair shake. The plain cast iron was awful as I burned the bottom of every loaf (have to adjust temps I suppose). Then I bought a Sassafras Superstone oval roaster which I thought was basically like a la cloche, only to find that it, too, is glazed on the bottom interior. Does the glazed interior make a difference in the bread? I am tempted to buy a real la cloche but love making oval loaves. Has anyone tested glazed vs non glazed clay?

I do see a slight difference between the two clay roasters also. Any info would be appreciated!!

http://www.epicurean.com/calc/
http://www.onlineconversion.com/weight_volume_cooking.htm
These 2 sites helped me to convert my mom’s recipes from metric to US measurements. The second one actually takes in consideration the density of the different ingredients. Hope it helps April.

Hi Bandita

Thanks for the great links! Very helpful, but do you know if there is a site for Volume to Weight conversion? I suppose I can do it the hard way by weighing up everything manually and taking copious notes!!

thanks
April

Eric, you really do a terrific job on your videos and all your steps are easy to follow. I, like many others look forward to making my next loaf and all the variations that can be applied. I made the Cinnamon / raisin that was real tasty but quite a few raisins on the outer portion of the bread burned. Next I experimented with the fried onion bread and had better results. What I did was add the fried onions to the dough after it went through the 18 hour rise. I flattened out the dough on my cutting board and spread the onions evenly over the dough reserving about a 1/2 cup. Then I folded it twice and added the reserved onions to the final fold keeping all the onions INSIDE the bread dough. I baked it and not one slice of onion was exposed or got burned. Looking forward to your next video and THANKS for putting together this website !!!!!!!!!!! Jeff

I just saw your video and I can’t wait to make your bread. I do have a suggestion, if you put a towel under your cutting board it won’t slide around so much when you go to slice your bread.
Thanks!

Thought I’d post a couple of things I’ve figured out for no-knead bread baking. First of all, I use 1 tsp of instant yeast rather than 1/4 tsp. I’m not sure what the idea was keeping the yeast so minimal, but mine just wasn’t rising as nicely as I liked. Similarly when using starter, I use a whole cup of starter. Secondly. I make a sticky dough but not a sloppy wet dough. For three cups of flour I start with a cup of water (for a yeast loaf), stir, add another 1/4 cup, then add a spoon at a time until its a bit sticky but not sloppy. Next, and perhaps because I use so much more leavening, I don’t worry about letting it rise forever. I mix it up at night after dinner sometime, then turn it out on a floured board in the morning. I do a few of those fold over kneads, shape the loaf and put it on a piece of parchment paper to rise, covered by a towel. I do not dump it into the pot. I slice the top with a razor and use the parchment to lower it into the dutch oven to bake.

True, I don’t get quite the same crust. It doesn’t have that little shattery tooth feel. But its still quite a nice loaf–a beautiful loaf– and the one time I made the much wetter dough, lower yeast dough it was a disaster to try to work with and however nice the crust was, it did not rise nearly as nicely.

The only other thing I do–and I don’t know if this makes a difference–is that I use mostly bread flour rather than all purpose (2 1/2 to 2 3/4 cups). I throw in a bit of whole wheat flour (1/4 to 1/2 cup). It gives it a pale golden color. The loaf has a good flavor. Its astonishing that its just flour and water and salt.

Yes, I have. I find them easier to shape than “regular” yeast dough but find that using metal pans (well greased with olive oil) rather than stones to cook them is preferable. If you want more info just email me.

Wanted to let you know that I am doing this at high altitude and the very wet dough does not work here. I add a scant 1/2 teas of yeast and a little more flour to get a good rise. I didn’t like the flavor that my baking stones had acquired, and they didn’t seem to bake as evenly either. I form them after the first rise and let them rest/rise for about 1/2 hour before baking. Length of bake time takes care of the chewy vs. crispy issue. I would be happy to talk with you, maybe we can ask Eric to share our phone numbers???? I have only used breadmaking or unbleached white flour in my breadsticks and I make them the Italian way, very thin. They would be equally good if you made them larger and let them rise longer, I think. We just prefer the crusty ones. Sure hope that helps. If you are baking at a lower altitude you should be successful without the yeast. When I am in the desert I use Eric’s original recipe and it is FABULOUS. Good luck.

I’m trying to make potato bread and the no knead method produces a loaf quite like what I want to achieve. Any suggestions as how to add potato to the dough.

Hello All,

My fiancee and I have been debating for some time about trying to make bread. I always thought it was a long and time consuming process. Found this site a few days ago and thought to myself what can it hurt lets give it a whirl. Got home from work on Friday measured out the ingredients did the 2 cups bread flower and 1 cup whole wheat. Decided to add a few different herbs in my bread along with some dried onion nothing too crazy and hoped for the best. Did the first rise in a metal bowl second in the same metal bowl (after washing) with some corn meal. Good rise on the first and am not sure how much rise I am supposed to get on the second but it rose to a good sized loaf. Dropped it into a cast iron dutch oven at 500 for 30 min and then uncovered for 15 min. I was amazed at the loaf that came out. I am not sure if I got good rise on the second but the bread is about 3.5-4 inches high and about 10-12 in round. This normal?
I am dying of anticipation to try the loaf but I promised my fiancee I would wait. The smell is unbearable at this time. Smells so good I am salivating.
This site is great thanks for changing my views on bread baking.

On a side note. I like the idea of being in control of what is in my bread. What is the best way to bake one of these breads to make a good sized sandwich slice. Would a typical bread pan be usable? or is there something better? Thanks

Hi,
Have used this recipe with some pretty good results, not as pretty as your photo!

Any recommendations for high altitude?
Also, is Red Star Active Dry Yeast the same as instant yeast?

Sally

Hello and thank you for the great website! I especially love the videos as they really help a noob like me understand what its supposed to actually look like. I’m definitely not one of those people to whom baking come naturally. Some people can throw together a couple of cups of dirt, pork fat, water and salt and create a killer bread, but not me, I struggle at it, and I do mean struggle (lets just put it this way, the local pigeon population would flock to my house when they knew i was baking).

Be that as it may, I had always wanted to try my hand at baking bread but was a little more that hesitant at it, until I found your website. Once I found your site I was inspired by your laid back attitude and approach to the whole process. There was no forma, stuffy “do this exactly or else” attitude, it was more of “sure why not” type of thing, so thank you for your inspiration.

Ok, so now on the my results. Being the baking challenged person that I am, the first loaf that I made came out a bit, well, odd. It just didn’t seem right, but that didn’t stop the family from passing it around at dinner time.

So for my second loaf, I reduced the amount of water and adjusted the cooking time to 35 min. w/lid on and 10 w/lid off and reduced the initial temp from 500 to 475 as I cooked it a well seasoned dutch oven. This loaf was much better, it wasn’t quite where I wanted it but my daughter commented that it just like the ones you get at the store. Ok, so that’s definately a positive in my book.

On my next attempt I will try reducing the water and salt a bit (following some of the suggestions that I’ve read on this site) and I think that should do it.

Once that’s accomplished its off to the world of sour dough…can’t wait.

Again, I just wanted to thank you and all the people that have contributed to this site for the wonderful recipes and methods that you have provided.

Thanks,
DSB

Okay. Okay. Okay. I decided to make another loaf. I found (from hunting in our outside storage container) a rather large metal roaster with a tight fitting heavy lid. Guess what? My 9×4 bread pan fits inside of it. So I had more dough going already, did the final 2 hour rise in the regular old bread pan, but preheated the roaster & lid at 500 and set the risen dough, pan and all in the roaster, put the lid on, turned it all down to 450. I just removed the lid for a final 10 to 15 minutes, and I had a spring to beat all springs! It rose tremendously! The crust is gorgeous! I can hardly wait for it to be done and cool.
Now I have to find a way to do 2 loaves in my oven at a time, because I can’t have my oven on that high all day.
Of course tomorrow I’ll double the recipe to try it in the roaster without the bread pan, but I’m not sure how it’ll do.

Thank you. Actually the size info helps because I still can’t fit 2 pans in my oven and get the steam action too. It looks like my Christmas wish list will include 2 oblong pans. My kids were cute. “Is this bread more expensive to make?” “No honey.” “Is it harder to make?” “No honey.” “Hurray!!!”

hi there,

In some of your recipes you use potato flour, Can I use boiled smashed potato or potato starch ?Your recipe says 3 tabsp. can i use the same amount if boiled smashed or potato starch can be used.

I also forgot to ask Rach about the safety of baking in clay flower pots. I know that some clay pots have lead in the clay and should not be used for food products. Any comments about this?

Hi there,

I’m so impressed at all the work you’ve put in on this great site, and your quick response time to all comments! I had the same problem as many people–my bread is not rising enough for me. I think the problem is my yeast–I had no idea that rapid-rise and instant were not the same! Also, can you give me your best guess (notice I did not say “scientific”) as to what would happen if the first rise was too hot for too long? Could I make up for it in the second rise? And does it matter if I use Iodized or Sea Salt?

Much thanks,
Aarwenn

I enjoyed reading many of the comments. I’ve been experimenting with the no-knead bread and the major problem is the crust being too hard. I’m using a cast iron not-enameled Martha Stewart pot. This last time the bottom even burned. I had used PAM before but didn’t to see if the crust would be softer. What’s the ultimate suggestion for this? Bread tastes delicious and has great holes in it so it’s just the crust…especially the bottom.I used my enameled Le Creuset pot the first time but it was too difficult to clean up afterward so I bought the one I’m using. Also-any reason not to use a whole packet of yeast (1 tsp) rather than 1/4 tsp? Thanks for the info.
Bette Hirsch
Palo Alto, CA

Hi, I am werry happy the bread is perfect, I am origine from europe just love good crusty bread and I dont have problem with this recipe bud wish to do also french baguette, do you know how ?

Made no knead bread. Loved it. Problem: The crust was a little too hard. Had trouble cutting through even with bread knife. Tried spreading a little butter on crust when took out of oven but, didn’t help much. Any suggestions?

I’m fixing to try again, but I have a question that I can’t seem to find an answer for….I don’t have anything to bake in but a glass dish with a lid….should I grease the dish first if I’m not using parchment or foil? Seems like it would stick if I didn’t.

How do you figure starter against the amout of total flower ….supose you use two cups of starter??

Paul,

I haven’t had the hollow loaf problem you mention with no-knead bread, but I used to have this problem sometimes in my bread machine. It turned out there that the dough was too wet. I’d try making your next loaf a little drier.

See, now this is why it may be a little premature to drop “the Novice”. I’m not sure I’ve ever actually used a loaf pan. Eric or some other more experienced bakers might want to weigh in here.

However, yes, I think the no-knead recipe will fit in a standard (9-inch?) loaf pan. Lots of bread recipes I’ve seen call for about twice as much flour as this one, and then they tell you to divide the dough and use two loaf pans. And I would grease the pan, and put the loaf in it for the final rise. I would bakje at 450 degrees, but that is the temperature I use for the no-knead bread, too.

Hi Eric, I am almost finished making my first batch of sourdough starter (thanks to your video and detailed instructions) and it’s definitely alive! As an interesting side note I used whole wheat berries that were stashed away from the Y2K scare that were in sealed cans with oxygen absorber packs in them. My husband ground them up for the starter and we’ll be using more for the sourdough loaf, and adding either ap or white bread flour. My question is: tomorrow morning I will be on the last step (#4) of making the starter and I’m wondering if I can make a loaf of bread on the same day or should I wait for a few more days? Thanks Eric for such an informative, interactive website, I wish more were like yours. Brenda

just found your excellent site. I have been baking bread for years and recently tasted your no knead bread that a friend made. I thought it was delicious. I just made the dough last night and woke up to a great big bowl full of fragrant dough! Can’t wait to bake it later! I am also really looking forward to making the sourdough starter as that is my favorite. Thanks for the great site! I enjoy your videos also!