No Knead Bread Baking Method

it is important to remember that canadian all purpose flour has a much higher gluten content and therefore, it is not necessary to use bread flour.

when making the no-knead bread with whole wheat or multigrain..i have found that it works best when i weigh the flour instead of measuring. this gives a consistent bread. whole wheat is a much denser flour. i also use 2 parts allpurpose to one part whole wheat or to the mutigrain.

by the way robinhood mutigrain is a fabulous flour for bread baking

In the video you handle the bread much more than I do (or than necessary). A few quick folds in the bowl are adequate. After that, I let it rest for one to two hours, then pour it into a preheated enamelled cast iron pan (3.5 qt Dutch oven similar to a LeCreuset) and follow the rest of your directions. The advantage to this is much less mess: no rising container or floured board to clean up afterward.

Peace,
Denali

Good points Denali, thanks. It's even easier than I make it look.

Eric

Love the site, and especially the videos and instructions on the no-knead method. Out of all the thousands of posts in various foodie sites discussing this technique, yours was the first with proven directions on using sourdough. I made a loaf yesterday using 1 cup whole wheat and sourdough according to your proportions, and it turned out beautifully. The rise and flavor surpassed the white flour/yeast version.

I noticed on your bookshelf that Laurel's Bread Book is listed. I am working my way through the book, and she discusses a technique of baking bread in a casserole, and adding water to it before replacing the lid and baking. I have yet to try it — have you? Part of what makes the no-knead bread so good is the baking in an enclosed container. Perhaps this is something that can be subject of a future video?

Keep up the good work!

Doris

Doris - Thanks so much for your input and kind feedback. I greatly appreciate it.

No, I haven't tried Laurel's steaming technique or baking in casserole dishes yet. They are great ideas and definite considerations for future videos. We can add Pyrex and clay casserole dishes to the list of viable no-knead baking containers.

For great crust, steam is the thing. I read a reference somewhere recently to the baking habits in rural villages long ago, where each village had a large communal oven where bread was baked weekly and all at the same time in order to create enough collective steam to get desirable results. I have a feeling their habits had a lot more to do with more basic practical considerations, but no doubt the steam effect was at least a nice side benefit.

I am obviously doing something wrong. Two loaves and the crust is as hard as a turtle shell. I am using all purpose flour, yeast, and reduced salt (1/2tsp).

Hi Jim. I need a little more info.

What are you baking your bread in, cast iron dutch oven or what? At what temperature and duration?

Besides the turtle shell crust, how well did the bread rise? How did the inside turn out - did you get open holes along with a good rise?

The rise was a little less than I had expected, i.e. about 3/4 increase in volume. Both loaves were baked in a cast iron dutch oven pre heated to 450. First one baked for 30 min with lid and 15 open resulted in a crust that would have been easier to cut with a metal saw. The second was baked at 20 min with lid and 30 without lid resulted in a crust that could be cut with a serrated knife with difficulty, but could barely be chewed. In both cases the crumb was good tasting with only modest open holes.

Boy, I don't know. That all sounds right. There aren't THAT many variables.

I'm wondering if maybe your dough isn't wet enough. If that's the case then it seems like the bread could overbake at high temps.

As far as ingredients go, it's not the salt. Twice in the past couple months I've forgotten to add salt altogether and besides the bread tasting totally bland, all else was normal. In the interest of science, try different flour and yeast. Organic flour labeled as Bread Flour from King Aurthur or Bob's Red Mill are good brands. If you have a Whole Foods grocer or some natural food type store, they will have something good.

Yeast has to be fresh and "instant" type. If you can find SAF-Instant brand yeast try that. Instant yeast (vs more common "active dry" or even "rapid rise" yeast) works because it's designed to be mixed in with dry ingredients and does not have to be activated in water first. Also, instant yeast will remain viable for the duration of the long proofing times required in the no-knead method, whereas rapid rise yeast will not.

Be sure your water is purified or spring water. Chlorine in tap water is not good for yeast.

Other than the moisture thing, I really don't know how the above can effect the crust all that much. Maybe someone else can help on this. There's a very active forum at http://www.thefreshloaf.com with a no-knead thread. Someone there might know. If you solve this, please let me know.

Eric

Regarding the above turtle shell crust issue…
After reading these comments, a friend of mine emailed me with her thoughts on the subject. Her experiences seem way more likely to address the problem than my random speculation.

"It could be due to his choice of pot–an unglazed cast iron dutch oven would absorb and hold more heat than something lighter colored or lighter in weight.
I use 2 different pots for my bread–one is a white Corningware roaster with a clear pyrex lid–for that I do 30 min. with the lid on and 15 min. with it off. The other is a clear brown pyrex stock pot–for that I put it in 5 or so min. after the other one and take it out 5 minutes early as well. If I don't make these adjustments, the one in the darker pot gets a really hard bottom crust and even burns a bit. It's the same recipe done at the same time in the same oven at the same temp.–the only variable is the pot.
He could continue to decrease the closed pot cooking time, as that seemed to help, or he could decrease the temp by 25 degrees (Joy of Cooking's suggestion when using darker pans), or soften a just-baked loaf with a too-hard crust by wrapping it in a slightly damp towel while it cools.
If you think any of that would be useful to him, go ahead and put it in the comments."

I agree, I use a 4qt Cast Iron Dutch Oven, $9.28 at the local Academy Store, and 500 is to hot,
450 is better.

I found to much water makes the 2nd rise spread out insted of rise and it never sets up. I used
1 lb bread flower and slightly less than 1 1/2 cups water and after about 10 trys got perfection.

Hi: Your video is great. I have a number of questions that you could help with. In making the sourdough version I use 4 oz of starter and keep everything else the same. The dough on the first rise is very very sticky. Hard or impossible to fold without adding a fair amount of flour. End product tastes great but little rising and no big holes. What do you think I should do next? I have lenthened the rising to 24 hours but I have not reduced the water yet. Thanks for any help. Allen

Hi Allen. If your starter is healthy, and you usually get a good rise with your normal sourdough bread baking, then this no-knead recipe should work too. You're using 4 oz of starter. I use about 2 oz. (1/4 cup of starter is about 2 to 2 1/4 oz). More is not necessarily better. If you're not getting a good rise in 18 hours, 24 probably isn't going to help.

It sounds like you have a scale. Measure out 15.5 oz. BREAD flour. 1/4 c healthy starter. 1 1/4 tsp salt. 1.5 cup (12 oz.) water. Mix. Wait 18 hours at normal range room temperature and follow rest of steps in video.

I hope this helps. Please report back again.

Hi: Need the doctor! Getting worse and not better. Using bread flour (3 cups),2 oz sourdough starter, 12 oz water, 1/4 tsp Fleishmann's RapidRise Yeast. Nice first rise for 18 hours and almost to top of bowl. Very wet when poured out. Can't fold without adding a fair amount of flour and even then almost impossible to fold. Take dough, add more flour to make manageable, and put into banneton. Rise for 2-3 hours but clearly not doubled ( morelike 3 bands worth). Pour into heated pot. Result: good taste, almost no rise at all. COmmitted to gettiing it right. Any hints. Any help appreciated. Need a break as family thinking I am going off the edge with flour all around. Allen

Hi Allen.

Welcome to "off the edge".

A few things…

Use either 2 oz starter OR 1/4 tsp. yeast. Not both. If you have too much yeast, you run the risk of your yeast consuming too much of its available nutrients and petering out.

Use "instant" yeast, not RapidRise yeast. I know it seems like the later should work but with RapidRise yeast, you typically get only one rise. So after the fold and transfer to the banneton, you don't get the second rise you're looking for.

(Go to http://www.breadtopia.com/bread-baking-supplies and scroll to the SAF Instant yeast info. If you can't find this yeast where you live, buy it here on this site. I know it's a shameless plug but I added it to the site because it works well and is not easy to find in some places. I bought mine from the King Arthur Flour site and paid a ridiculous amount because of shipping charges. Then I tracked down a distributor and bought a case for this site.)

Also, regarding the 2-3 hour second rise, you can also OVER proof your dough. This is the same as the first point really. The yeast peters out at some point. Although in your case, I think you weren't going to get a second rise anyway because of the wrong yeast. (Just as a general rule, it's usually better to err on baking just before your dough reaches its maximum rise than after it peaks. Catching that perfect point can be tricky, but it's usually not all that critical as long as you're somewhat close).

It also sounds like you could stand to reduce the water or add more flour at the beginning, although I don't think that's your problem.

More free (you get what you pay for  advice): Forget about the sourdough starter for now. Wait until you can produce a loaf satisfactory to your liking using just the instant yeast as leavening. Then try other methods. This way, you can narrow down and more easily quantify your variables so more likely to get predictable results.

I am waiting with baited breath for your next installment. I don't think you're crazy… yet.

Eric

Hi Eric
Last Saturday I used my new La Cloche and rattan forming basket and,more importantly,your videoed forming and shaping techniques,all for the first time.While I have been making the Bittman/Lahey no-knead bread for several months now,I have never had such a successful result.The exercise was conducted with two avid baking friends,now known as the "flour girls", who are now converts to this method.
Many,many thanks for all your expertise and support!
Tom

I've been baking bread pretty much all my adult life. I've even baked bread in a dutch oven before. However, this method is the easiest and best tasting bread I've ever made. I say that grudgingly because I hate to admit that all the work that went into my previous loaves was not really necessary.

I rarely bake with yeast anymore. So I've only tried the sourdough starter method - exactly as your recipe. Tonight I mixed together a batch using 1 cup of sprouted spelt flour along with the 2 cups of AP. I've been baking a really good 100% sprouted spelt bread (not using this method). I'll see how this compares.

I can't imagine ever having to buy bread again. This is so easy.

Hi Janis,

Your thinking reflects my own EXACTLY!

Please let us know how your spelt bread comes out. I'd also love to see your recipe and methods for 100% sprouted spelt bread. I realize that's asking a lot. It would be really nice to add a whole section to this site of favorite recipes and techniques by contributors. There's a strong interest here in 100% whole grain baking.

Just last night, Christina (http://www.breadtopia.com/make-your-own-sourdough-starter) commented about experimenting with spelt sourdough starter. I definitely need to start a special section to bring these things together in one coherent place. Any contributions by you would be very welcome.

Eric

Well, duh. I have a couple of La Cloches but used a cast iron dutch oven at 450 F. I used the La Cloche, as you showed, and my No-Knead is much better.
Thanks
Willard

That's good to know. I was thinking about getting a dutch oven just to compare to my cloche but maybe now I won't bother.

I cannot wait to start! You make it look so easy. My last three loaves - three different recipes made with regular ol' yeast, despite all my perfect proofing & kneading efforts - have not produced anything but over gummy bread. Interesting - never heard of the 2nd rise won't work theory. Please please do start a recipes section because besides experimenting w/ different flours, I love adding spices, cheese, eggs, etc. to our breads here for variations, but am tired of recent failures. I look forward to receiving my order & putting this all into "effect"-ive bread making!

Hi Connie, Okay, I will start a recipe section. I'm thinking maybe two sections with one just for no-knead variations. It'll be fun to see what people come up with. Thanks for your order today I can't wait to hear how it goes for you.

I received a cloche for Christmas and have not used it. Before seeing your information I had approached a local French bakery re: the cloche (as my husband had awful luck with transit breakage from other sources). The information that I received was to first "season" the inside of the base in the manner of seasoning cast iron; secondly, about 15 minutes prior to baking I was to fill the lid with hot water and let it stand, dumping when ready to bake. The oven temp and timing were similar to yours. Since then, I have been given a copy of the no-knead from the New York Times. And now I have viewed your video. I AM PSYCHED!

Question: Is my information correct as far as it goes? and, I am confused about the pre-heating (or not) of the cloche top. Do I fill it with water and cover the loaf (after dumping the water) at room temperature? or, do I preheat the lid with the base? Should I soak it before I preheat it? I REALLY don't want to crack/break the lid. Help?????
Nancy

Made my first loaf a couple of days ago baking it in a 5-quart Logic C.I. Dutch oven. I did my final rise in a glass mixing bowl with a top diameter smaller than the Dutch oven. I placed the dough on a Reynolds Release foil square and then lifted it into the mixing bowl by holding onto two corners of the foil. Likewise, when I put the dough into the Dutch oven, I simply lifted it again using the foil corners and set it into the Dutch oven still on the foil. It worked great!

I had added a little whole wheat flour for flavor and a little more salt than the original recipe called for. The flavor was great but I did not achieve the crust which it should have had. I am certain it was because I did not bake it long enough with the lid nor long enough without the lid. Trial two is now underway.

One question: What is the purpose of the quick shaping and delay of 15 minutes before starting the final rise? Couldn't the dough go into the final rise container immediately?

You know, Jerry, that's a great question about the 15 minute rest, and it totally beats me what that accomplishes. I think a professional (or otherwise more knowledgeable baker) could answer that and I hope they do here!
I see it all the time in recipes to let the dough rest for a period of time. Must have something to do with the chemistry of the dough. I know it allows the dough to "relax" but what does that really do?
I think the point of the quick shaping is just not to de-gass the dough too much of the CO2 bubbles built up inside.

I have just come across your instructions for the no knead bread and intend to have a go, but I don't have 70 degrees more like 62, so will the method work if I allow extra time.

Thank you.

Hi Cynthia.
Yes, definitely. It might even turn out better. The longer and slower the proofing period, the more time the flavors have to develop. Play around with different times and let us know how it goes.

I started the dough off last night, and this morning its rising and looks fine, I'll give it a while longer before I shape it and will certainly let you know how it goes.

Cynthia

Another thought aabout the 15 minute delay step. When I make pizza dough, I usually find that I must rest it some during flattening it out to final size. That seems to relax the gluten some and make the dough more manageable (shapeable). Perhaps the same takes place with the rest when making the NKB.

What is the science behind the 18 hour rise? I mean why 18 hours and not 15 or 12 hours?

Hi Kevin,

If you hadn't included the word "science" in your question, I would have ventured an answer. You might be interested in this book written by a professional artisan baker who also has a PhD in chemistry - Bread Science: the Chemistry and Craft of Making Bread, http://www.twobluebooks.com.

Jerry's question about what's behind the "rest period" in a bread recipe also seems like it's looking for more than the typically anecdotal information available on the net.

Hi Eric,
Really I was just wondering if for some reason I had to end the proccess earlier than the 18 hours if that would ruin the bread.

Oh.
As long as the dough has risen and is all bubbly, you'll be fine. Maybe the flavor will not be as well developed as it could be, but even that would probably not be so noticeable.
Of course it does take time for the yeast to do its thing, so there's a limit to how short you can cut the time. The cooler the room temp, the longer the yeast needs too so you gotta factor that in some.
How's that for a precise and scientific answer?

I am doing a rye no knead today for the first time. It is using a wet rye sourdough starter which I fed yesterday before I made the dough. It uses 1 1/2 cup of both med rye flour and bread flour. Your 1 1/2 cups of water, 1/2 cup starter, 2 t of salt, 2 T caraway seeds and 1/4 t yeast. It has been in my oven with the light on all night and it is rising beautifully. I have a 5 qt Dutch oven and a mini baker from Pampered Chef (like a mini La Cloche) and have not decided which one I am going to use. I was not happy with the Dutch oven version as the crust was way to dark, bordering on burnt. I may try it again with the temperature turned down to 450 instead of 500 and see how that works. I will post after to let you know how my rye bread turned out…

Sounds great, Rena. I'm looking forward to hearing your results. Eric.

I just made my very first fabulous loaf of no-knead bread! It was truly easy and delicious.
I did add 1/4 tsp of sugar because i could beleive bread would rise without any sugar to feed the yeast.
Loaf #2 I will follow your recipe verbatum!

Question: what or how does this bread dough rise, coverred up with plastic and unexposed to air particles etc?

Hi Erica. A 1/4 tsp of sugar won't hurt but there's plenty of food for the yeast in the flour starch.

Yeast doesn't need much air to do its thing, it's mostly anaerobic. The plastic is to keep the dough from drying out. Some air is there and that's all that's needed.

Hi Eric-

The bread turned out great. I used a 7 grain mix to coat the bowl used with the final rise. It has given it a nice crunch to the crust. The crumb has lots of holes but is slightly dense like rye should be. I did this with a rye sourdough starter and a slight amount of yeast as a backup. The rye starter is fairly young so I just wanted a little reassurance. I am sure that this will be a repeat in the future. The only problem was it was SO wet I had a few problems with the initial folding but it obviously worked. If you have a place to post pictures I will be glad to put them up.

Rena

Rena - if you wouldn't mind emailing (click this link) the pictures to me, I should be able to post them here. That would be great.

I have been lining a coiled proofing basket with Reynolds Release non-stick foil and placing the dough in it for the final rise. After it has risen, I move it, foil and all, to a Dutch oven for baking. This works very well.

My question is this: If I want to do a longer loaf in a LaCloche Oblong Clay Baker, what can I use for the final rise including the foil?

Jerry - I had trouble with that too until I bought an oblong proofing form from one on my wholesale suppliers. I'm thinking of adding this item to my store but wonder if there's enough demand to warrant it.
You can find these things on the net and I'm sure the King Arthur Baker's Catalogue. I think it's well worth whatever they cost if you're using the oblong la cloche regularly. I sure do. I think the bread actually comes out a little better in the oblong than the round La Cloche just because the space is a little tighter and the steam more concentrated. Plus you get more crust for the volume of bread. Nice for crust lovers!

When I search for an oblong proofing form, what maximum length can it be in order to fit the LaCloche?

Mine is an open ended kind, like a baguette pan. I think you just need something that's at least about 10" long. It doesn't matter if it's longer than the cloche. The dough rises mostly up, not lengthwise much.

Here are the pictures of Rena's no knead rye bread with the multi seeds on top. It was made using a very active liquid rye starter and lots of caraway seeds inside.

Click on the image to enlarge.

Thanks Rena!

I made the no knead bread yesterday and I used all multi grained flour. As Elaine Cooper noted, in Canada we have a flour called Robin Hood Multigrain bread flour. Its actually great. Although the crumb wasnt as open as I would have liked, the bread tasted great and my wife loved it. Next time I might try half all purpose and half multigrain to see what I get. Great site you have here Eric. By the way if you ever want a sample of our multigrain flour let me know and I will send you one. I am not sure if its available in the US.

Hi Mike. Thanks for the input and the nice offer!
I would like to know how your half AP, half multigrain turns out compared to all multigrain. Perhaps you could report back here if you go that way next time.

Hi: Getting there with NKB> Final problem is how to get from 2nd proofing to hot pan. Have used no stick foil, banneton, and parchment. What do you htink is the best method? And, if use no stick or parchment what is the best way? Thanks for help Allen

Allen, have you seen Margaret's article? Particularly point #7. Sounds like you can drop the parchment paper and dough all together into the hot pan.

Hi Eric,
This is a great site and I love your videos. I recently purchased a dual-sided, perforated, french bread pan. As an experiment, I divided the dough (no-knead-18 hr.) after turning it out on a floured board, then folded each piece over only twice, first left, then right, and covered with a piece of plastic wrap. After letting the dough rest, I just rolled it off the board onto each side of the french bread pan, sprinkled the tops with sesame seeds, covered it again and let it go for 2 hours. I baked them in a 450 oven for 35 minutes.
The crust isn't as hard and crunchy using this method, but is still very good, and the bread still has nice holes in it. All in all, a good variation from the round loaf.

Hi Maryann,

Thanks for the nice comments.
I do pretty much the same thing only I roll the dough into the oblong cloche. In fact, I've ordered some of those pans to add to the shopping area in case people want to use them.

Hi, this bread looks wonderful and I would love to make it, but I need your help.

Do you know how much flour and water would I have to use at high altitude, and what about the oven temp.

Anxious to hear from you,

Ruth

Hi Ruth,

Some experimentation is going to be required. Here are some general guidelines to consider. Try one adjustment at a time and take careful notes of which changes worked best for you.

I would experiment with the basic no knead recipe since the effort and time required is not so much compared to most bread recipes.

Yeast breads rise more quickly at high altitudes so you might try reducing the amount of yeast by 25%. This will inhibit the bread from over rising.

You can also increase salt by 25%. The bread will rise slower and have less of a tendency to sink.

Watch your dough carefully and judge the rise time by the change in the dough's bulk, not by the amount of time it takes. With the no-knead method, this point applies to the rise after the 15 minute rest period, not the 18 hour proofing period.

Sometimes, you may need to increase the oven temperature. At elevations over 3500 feet, the oven temperature for doughs should be 25 degrees Fahrenheit higher than the temperature used at sea level. (Probably not so necessary (or even possible) with a no-knead recipe that suggests starting at 500 degress.)

Flour stored at high altitudes tends to be drier. You might need to add a few teaspoons of water more than what the recipe calls for.

I think the main thing is just to start somewhere and be prepared for some failures. Don't feel bad about tossing a few loaves until you find what works. Again, taking good notes along the way is critical. Have fun with it.

Good luck. I'd be very interested in knowing how you fare. If you report back after each try with your results, maybe I or someone else here can offer more specific guidance.

Eric

Eric,
I just tried my first batch of NKB in my cloche baker. It's still cooling but it looks very nice. I didn't get a big oven spring however. In reading the entries above that seems to be rather common. Any ideas why they don't spring much? I used a coil banneton and will confess to a little french folding at the end. I noticed in the Martha Stewart video she french folded her dough a few times. It looked like she was just playing with shaping it but if you know the move, she was stretching and strengthening the gluten.

Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. There are so many variables it's hard to nail down the causes all the time. Next time, skip the french folding and just gently and quickly form the dough into a ball before placing in the proofing basket so it doesn't degass too much.

But there's a bunch of other factors too. Almost everybody will tell you a lot of it just comes with practice. When I watch skilled experienced bakers, they make it look easy. Easy with years of daily practice!

I am making a loaf of NKB with Craisins and Pecans. My sourdough starter was not ready to use at this time, so I am using 1/4 teaspoon of instant yeast. After about 12 hours of the 18 hour period, the dough looked a little dry to me, so I added a tablespoon of water and gave it a small knead to better incorporate the nuts and craisins. At the end of the 18 hours, it was full of large bubbles. It is in the oven now, so I don't know what the finished loaf will be like, but I am hopeful that it will have interior bubbles. Mine never seem to.

I will let you know what happens.

Hi Jerry,

It sounds like it's working. Looking forward to hearing the outcome.

HI: Still working at it and getting better each time. Resolved issue of rising by proofing in banneton lined with no stick foil and transferring with foil to hot covered pot. I remove the foil after after 20 minutes so that bottom can get brown. A question- to test for the completeness of second proofing I put a finger in to see if it fills up. Is this correct? IS there another way? SOmetimes the dough sticks to the finger- what does this mean? even after 3 hours? Thanks Allen

Thanks for the great tips, Rick.

I had to do a search on "demerara sugar" to find out about it. Sounds good.

Hi Allen.

I didn't see your post right away. Poking the dough is one way to test. When it stays depressed, that's a sign the dough is ready. But I don't think that's a very good test, really. I think if you get used to going by sight, you'll be better off in the long run. Look for the dough to about double in size.

You also don't want to wait too long or you'll start to lose your rise and not get much oven spring. You'll get better and better at judging with practice. A professional baker once told me "that's where the 'art' in artisan comes from".

Not sure the sticky thing is a problem with no-knead bread since the dough is so much wetter than usual.

Sounds like you're doing well.

I've made many loaves of no knead bread. I keep telling myself that I will try some regular sourdough kneaded bread but I'm still having so much fun with the no knead bread. I even went overboard and built myself a super deluxe proofing oven. It's thermostatically controlled and will keep the temperature within a degree. I added a small fan to keep the temperature at all levels even. There's a rack on top to hold ice. Summertime temperatures get so hot here that it would be difficult to control the proofing. A bit of ice on top will keep the temperature down and the thermostat will kick in if the temperature goes too low. The heater is two fluorescent screw-based lights placed off to the side of the racks. Such are the joys of retirement. I get to go overboard on my hobbies. By the way, the dough whisk is a tool I consider wonderful and absolutely essential.

To Brian Avery:

Are you related to Mike Avery, whose name pops up now and then in the bread bakers group to which I subsccribe?

More important, I am both a abaker and a yogurt maker, hence I am expecially interested in temperature controls. What thermostat do you use?

Jerry In Seattle

No relation that I am aware of but I suppose if you go far enough back there must have been a common Avery.

I had a difficult time finding a thermostat that could be powered by 120 or 240 volts. I bought a cheap one at Home Depot but it had a simple bimetallic strip and was very inaccurate. I'm now using a Ranco ETC-111000-000. The temperature range is minus 30 degrees F to plus 220 degrees F so that just about covers any use one would have for it. The differential (temperature variation) can be set to hold the temperature within 1 degree F to 30 degrees F. The sensor is a thermistor on an 8 foot cord. The control can be set to either cooling or heating mode. The AC power input connects directly to the thermostat as does the load. It's simple to set and retains the setting when the power is turned off. It's capabilities exceed what I need but I could find nothing else on several Internet searches that would come close to meeting my needs. I ordered the thermostat from Honey Run Apiaries and the cost was $59.99 plus shipping and duty (to Canada). It may be available elsewhere but I gave up looking.

My Notes on No Knead Bread

I made about 4 or 5 loaves of the No Knead bread all with similar results,
- dough was allways very wet, (used 1 1/2 cups water) …so the fold over step was just a big mess
- the second rise never really did much.
- loaves came out on the flat side, but crust and taste were very good

I then purchased the SAF Instant Yeast from you and used King Arthur's Bread flower and had much better results.
-Not as messy after first rise,
-was able to fold over the dough and it came out much higher,
-second rise much more succesful,… very happy.

….Now if I could only get the dough to not stick as much to the cotten towel before I place it into the oven, …any suggestions??
Thanks!!

Hi Rocco,

Have you tried the bran flakes thing? You have to use a lot of it. At our local heath food grocery store I found a bag (about 1 lb. I suppose) of just bran from Bob's Red Mill. Sprinkle a thick layer over the towel so no part of the towel is visible. You'll probably get bran all over the place but it cleans up easily and it's better than dough sticking to the towel.

When the bread is done baking and cooled, you can rub the excess bran off (over the sink or waste basket) and you're good to go. This is all easier than I'm probably making it sound.

I've tried other things beside bran but so far bran works the best.

I find that a lot of practice helps in dealing with wet dough. At first I was very careful when folding the dough and it always stuck to my fingers. Now I just quickly grab an edge, flip the dough over and do the same with the other folds. Make sure the dough is on a well-floured board and your hands are well-floured. When flattening the dough prior to folding I usually have to re-flour my hands once or twice. Don't be too fussy about getting the folds right or making a perfectly-shaped loaf or it is going to stick.

The only time I use a towel (linen - cotton might be more of a problem) is to cover the loaf for 15 minutes after it is folded. The towel never gets washed so is now saturated with flour. I have had no problem with it sticking but for the second rise I think a towel might be problematic. I put my loaf in a wicker basket sprayed lightly with vegetable oil and coated with bran flakes and cover it with a plastic cover that looks like a shower cap (available in grocery stores in Canada and probably elsewhere). The risen dough sticks a bit but if I carefully peel the cover off very little sticks. Rather than wash the cover I just let it dry, give it a shake, and the hard dough flakes off. If you are using a towel to line a basket make sure it is well-saturated with flour. Wheat bran seems to work best to keep the dough from sticking.

I have been making kneaded sourdough bread since January and no-knead sourdough bread for only a couple months. When I started I read lots of web sites and books and expected the road to success was to follow expert advice. I measured exactly, tried to control oven temperature precisely and followed all instructions. My biggest concern was preparing the sourdough starter and keeping it at a proper state of activity and consistency. I no longer measure the flour or water I add to the starter. I just know what it should look like and generally how often I should feed it. When I make no-knead bread I roughly measure ingredients and just add enough liquids until the dough feels right. I adjust oven temperature and the amount of time I leave the loaf uncovered in the oven so that the loaf looks right. If I smell burning crust the oven is too hot. If the crust is too light, the oven is too cool. The precision oven thermometer I bought has never had the intelligence to bake the loaf the way I want it. I am beginning to view recipes as necessary guidelines to be followed until one develops their own methods and a feel for what they are doing.

It may sound like I'm bragging (I do admit to having a feeling of accomplishment for what I have learned so far.) but what I'm trying to do is show newcomers to bread baking how fast you can come from knowing nothing about baking to making very good bread and having your own opinions on how it should be done. Don't worry if things don't work out right away. As someone pointed out, the mistakes are generally edible.

If I can make a reasonably successful loaf then anyone can. Just don't give up. If you do then try again in a few weeks or months or years. I tried baking sourdough bread about thirty years ago. The starter grew well but the bread was about an inch high. You can't do any worse than that and even if you have problems you now have the advantage of all the advice out there on the Internet and in some very good books on the subject.

You are spared the tedium of reading more paragraphs about my enthusiasm for bread making. It is time to bake another loaf.

Rick:
Your advice about using a smaller pot so the bread doesn't spread out too far brought to mind something I tried with minimal success. Using a tile saw I cut the rim off a terra-cotta plant pot. The rim was just the right size to keep the dough from spreading and give me a nice, high loaf. I baked the bread on a pizza stone under my "la Cloche" lid. Unfortunately, I had to chisel the bread out of the terra-cotta rim. Then I tried wrapping parchment around the rim and that allowed me to get the bread out. The big problem I faced was getting the dough into the rim. I had to do it before the second rise (after the second rise it was impossible to get the dough in without it spilling over the side) which meant the rim had to go into the oven cold. I read somewhere that some people swear by the method of putting dough in a cold oven and then turning on the oven. I tried that. The first loaf looked okay but after removing it from the oven the beautiful crust slowly collapsed. The next loaf I baked longer but I found the crust to be thinner and otherwise not as nice as the crust of a loaf that went into a hot oven. I like the free-form loaves baked with no restraint from spreading but sometimes I'd like to have something a little higher for sandwiches. I think there is room for experimentation. The terra-cotta rim never got hot enough to make a nice crust. Perhaps something like a springform pan would work. I suppose I could look for a properly-sized dutch oven but I like using my "la Cloche" baker. I've also thought of trying a larger loaf but I have my doubts that a larger loaf or even a higher loaf will turn out well with the no-knead method. I love this alchemy - turning base flour into golden loaves.

Have any of you tried other shapes and/or sizes for no-knead bread?

Maybe someone can answer my most puzzling question. How do you manage to wait for the bread to cool before you cut it? I NEED to have that first crusty piece NOW.

Brian Avery

I have used my stainless Dutch oven, a Corning oval stoneware casserole, and now my baker of choice is a 2 litre stoneware casserole. This last one cost me $5 and does a great job.

I would like to find an Italian stoneware baker. Perhaps something will turn up now that it is garage sale season.

For your terra cotta ring let me suggest something. Find some bakers silicone paper - it is like parchment but stands higher heat and is virtually non stick. Begin your proof on the silicone paper and when ready to bake put the silicone paper and dough into the ring. It may take some judicious trimming to get the silicone to the right size however you can easily move the dough simply by picking up the silicone paper. That maybe worth experimenting with to see if it gets you were you want to go.

Friday morning I am baking a loaf with seven grain flour and wheat and rye berries. It is a very tasty loaf.

Rick

When the temperature is turned down at night how do you keep the dough at room temperature? Ans: You take it to bed with you!!
The NYT article/video says it can be made by a 4 year old.
Here are the grandkids making the bed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQQOePl4P_4

Hi Mark.

I love it!

In fact, I've featured it here…
http://www.breadtopia.com/2007/04/14/the-greatest-baking-video-of-all-time/

I love the recipe. I made 2 loaves this weekend at 7000 ft. elevation. No problems, no adjustments required! Hard to believe that there was such a great outcome. Excellent final product. I am sharing with all of my fanatic bread-baking friends!

I've made the bread and I used my LeCreuset dutch oven….the bread came out great and my dutch oven seemed to take the oven just fine. But I just called LeCreuset and they said they would not put an empty dutch oven in the oven to preheat and they would also never put it in an oven over 450 degrees as the high heat could damage the enamel….

What do you think?

Hmmm, I always thought the main problem was that the lid knobs were not made to withstand really high oven temps. Didn't know the enamel was an issue, but you'd think they would know what they're talking about.
On the other hand, it seems everyone goes out of their way to avoid product liability issues and I suppose No-Knead bakers are a small percentage of their customer base. So it figures they would advise on the cautious side.
If you're baking frequently, might as well invest in a 100% plain cast iron Dutch oven. Lodge brand makes one that I think comes pre-seasoned and will last for ever no matter what you do to it. They're a small fraction of the price of a LeCreuset.

Is a La Cloche the same thing as a Romertopf?

Thanks for the quick answer. They also mentioned the knob problem. But I ruined one LeCreuset dutch oven by consistently putting the stovetop temperature up over "Medium"…it discolored and made browning and deglazing difficult. That is the reason I called…I thought that oven heat might be different than direct heat, but they said it was very chancey. In addition, LeCreuset says to never heat the pan empty. I'm going to try Lodge or my grandmother's old cast iron pot!

Thanks.

Regarding La Cloche vs. Romertopf. They are basically the same thing in that they are clay bakers.
I've spoken to the Romertopt people about making a design more like the La Cloche round and oblong ones as I think they are better designed for baking bread than any of the current Romertopf designs. I'm not the only one who's inquired about this so we'll see if anything comes out of it.

So I could also use a Romertopf to make bread in? Mine is an oblong-ey oval…not unlike my LeCreuset dutch oven. I presume I don't soak it and put it into a cold oven and let it preheat…then plop the dough in it. Can they take a very high heat?

Yes, use it and let us know how it goes. You're right - don't soak it and do heat from a cold oven before popping the dough in it.

I've only use the Cloche and they can take high heat. I assume Romertopf is the same in that regard. I suppose they're fired at very high heat when made. It's only sudden temperature changes that would be a problem.

Hi breadtopia:

I made your fantastic NK bread a few days ago. I was unable to get your video to work, so I don't know if I did things they way you do.

I mixed up the dough at 3:00 p.m. At 10.00 p.m. I did a gentle 4 way foldover. At 7:00 a.m. I did another gentle foldover. At 11:00 a.m. I lined my Italian Clay Baker with parchment paper - this is perhaps unnecesssary, but I like easy clean-up - and carefully poured the NK dough into my Italian Clay Baker. I tipped the Baker up and down so the dough would fill the entire Baker than set it aside to rise.

I put the cover on and placed it in a *COLD* oven (as the Bakers directions say to do) and set the oven temp. to 500 degrees. I baked it with the cover on for about 25 minutes, then removed the cover and baked until the internal temp. of the dough reached 210.

The bread was absolutely beautiful. It was very holey, high rising and perfectly formed because the Baker gave it structure. In other words - just perfect.

Just curious about the salt you use. I use kosher salt in the kitchen and I know that it is less dense than table salt. So usually the volume of kosher salt needs to be higher to substitute for table salt. What kind of salt are you using in the recipe? Have you used kosher salt? If so, what volumetric measurement are you using for it?

Thanks!

Hi Kate.

I haven't used kosher salt for baking mostly because its large grain size makes it a little difficult to get it to mix in and dissolve in the dough. Although with the wet no-knead dough I suppose it would be a lot easier. I've read that you have to about double the volume of kosher salt compared to table salt because of the large grain. That's why bakers often go by weight. The weight of salt would be the same.
After reading that Polaine uses Normandy sea salt in his famous Parisian bread, and that he says it makes a big difference, I tried it and didn't notice a difference.
I use mineral salt that I buy in bulk at our local natural food grocer because, like Kosher salt, it isn't made with additives and I figure I could use the minerals.

Eric, your site is just absolutely great! You are doing a great service for home bakers. Many thanks!

Hi, I hope you can give me some advice. A friend of mine gave me a round banneton, and I have a been trying to let the NK bread rise in it but every time the dough sticks regardless of how much I coat it with flour.

Hi Ruth,

You really have to coat it with something else. The only thing I've found that works well, and fortunately it works quite well, is spray the banneton with a light coating of oil and then sprinkle in a layer of wheat bran. You need the oil for the bran to stick to the edges of the basket.

When you're done baking you can clean out the basket with some kind of brush. I use a basting brush that has fairly stiff bristles. The oil won't hurt the basket.

A little late to NK bread but, already addicted.
I live in Mexico, and so, my 'room temp' is quite a bit more than 70 F. also, I can only get basic yeast - not labeled rapid, quick, normal, or anything, just 'levadora'. pretty much the same with flour.

so, with that in mind, how long should I wait for the 'first rise' to be finished? I'm thinking 18 hours is too long, and not sure about the frig for my first attempt to slow things down.

a basic all clad pot is acceptable for the baking vessel?

thanks from a newbie

I'll give it a wing.
The thing that concerns me about the clay cooking-ware here, is the reports of lead content.
I do have a 2/5 quart corning ware that I can try, but read some reports of explosions in oven.
My oven BARELY gets to 450F, even though it is brand new, so maybe I don't have to worry about overheating………
I think I will go to the mercado and see if I can find some cast iron bean pot type thingy.
More as it develops. (so to speak)
:o)

Ok, I just followed the no-knead method and made the absolute, hands down, best bread of my (limited) bread baking career. The crust was phenomenal. The inside was flavourful and chewy - not many holes, but very light considering I used 100% wholemeal (since i'm on a health kick, and it's all I have in the house). I used a bit less flour to compensate (next time i'll weigh it to be more precise) and my trusty sourdough starter.

After the 18 hours, the mixture was very wet - much wetter than on the video, there's no way i could have formed any sort of loaf from it - so I folded in a bit more flour before the proofing. I don't have a La Cloche, so I used a cast-iron skillet with an up-turned pyrex mixing bowl on top. It worked in a pinch, and gave me a spectacular view of my crust forming! But i wouldn't recommend it, as it was difficult and slippery to handle, even with my welding gloves. The bottom of the bread did start to blacken so I baked for only 10mins @450F - maybe I need to cook at slightly cooler temp, on the black skillet?

Second time around… even better than the first! This time I used half whole grain, and half Bob's Red Mill 10 Grain Bread Mix. I took the shortcut and just folded it a few times in the pot, sprinkling a little cornmeal around and under it. It even had holes this time!! Still a bit burnt on the bottom using the cast-iron skillet @475F - time to get an alternative baking vessel.
Thanks, keep up the good work!

Rosemary

I am in the process of making my first loaf of no-knead bread and after 18 plus hours I poured the dough onto my wooden bread board and it is very watery with lots of added flour and my plastic scraper I was able to fold, But when it came time to place in proofing bowl it is way too wet and runny to shape. I had to pour it into bowl. I am at a loss on what went wrong whether I should just trash it and try again. or pour it into a cast iron pan and see what happens.

Marie's response…

This is the recipe I followed I quess I have to invest in a scale so I can weigh the ingredients as you do. For I baked it and it was bad. I will try again after I learn how to weight the ingredients, Thank You for getting back to me so fast. Marie

Does anyone have experience with Brazilian flour ? The bread crust is excellent but the crumb… It looks a little like a consistent gelatin. It's not white like the bread from the bakeries and it's a little shiny/glossy. I tried with 60%, 65% and the rsult seems to be the same. With 65% of hydratation I have more large holes, but still not like the photos in this site. Any clue/tip ?

Thanks,

Hi Gustavo,

Is it possible the shiny/glossy is from under cooking? That's what mine looks like when I don't give it enough time.

Eric

Not sure but seems that it's cooked. I bake the bread between 220-230C using a ceramic pot. Should I try with a lower temp ?

The only accurate way to test if the bread is done baking is by measuring the internal temperature of the bread with an instant read thermometer. It should read about 205-210 degrees F (about 96-99 C).

Maybe it is the Bra